So now that Warmog's got a health cut and no longer requires 100 stacks

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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I still think visage + randuins is a better pick up on any of those guys than warmogs (why get more regen and flat health when you can get better regen, health, resists, and thats not even including randuins). I more don't see why anyone would want that option over defensive items that couple their stats rather than giving flat additive ones that are countered hard by other items. That item is basically bait for sej, mundo, voli, kind of shen (am I forgetting another health scaler?), and too strong on olaf given how few offensive items he needs to buy anyways.


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Rebonack

Senior Member

12-11-2012

With the changes to HP and Resist costs if you've shooting for optimal effective HP you want about 2000 HP or so for every 100 Resistance you have (what that resistance consists of would depend on the mix of damage on the enemy team). HP becomes more useful the more percentile penetration your foe has.

An HP equivalent to Thornmail (~800 HP with some passive tacked on for 2k gold) would make it quite a bit easier to reach that goal.


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFerric View Post
I still think visage + randuins is a better pick up on any of those guys than warmogs (why get more regen and flat health when you can get better regen, health, resists, and thats not even including randuins).
As a side, Randuin's doesn't give regen anymore since the most recent patch.


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Done25

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Can we pleaaaaase get Warmog back now? HP champions like Mundo, Volibear, Olaf, and other kind of need it.


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Zulgaines

Member

12-22-2012

This would just be a buff to tanky DPS, we don't want it.


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Rikukun

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Personally I think it would be ok to bring Warmogs, or some equivalent back now.

Though more importantly, I feel as though AD carries need a little help moreso than people who would use warmogs.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Ok, so I get Darius in an ARAM game a few days ago.

I proceeded to build Mercs, a Black Cleaver, LW, and 3 Warmogs (not in that order), and was about as tanky as my tanks who itemized actual armor/mr while dishing out loads of damage.

I'm normally pretty bad with AD bruisers, too. But something about having 5k health and a decent amount of penetration with high base damages just sort of made things easy.


I don't care how many downvotes I get, giving someone the ability to become almost nigh-invulnerable while still doing really high damage is pretty overpowered, and I refuse to support an item that facilitates that.

Warmogs would be fine if the ONLY champions who could buy it were fairly low-damage tanks, but throw multiple Warmogs on a high-damage bruiser and bad things happen. To the other team.


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hinderlopen

Senior Member

12-24-2012

The weird thing about hp is that buying it rather than armor/mr produces different effects against the different damage carries. Against AD carries stacking hp is going to be more helpful to them than stacking armor because they can lifesteal more off you. They'll be able to get back quite a bit of their health and undo most of your burst. An AD carry doesn't want to buy armor pen, he needs to when the opponent buys armor.

AP carries are kinda meant to do a lot of up front damage, but have lower dps than an AD carry overall. So against AP carries, buying hp with a little mr is going to be much more helpful thank buying a ton of mr. The (1000) hp + little mr combo is basically going to negate a full combo from any mage around mid game, which is problematic since they want to be useful too. But now instead of having 100 useless mr against an ad carry, bruiser's will have extra hp, which makes whatever armor they have more useful. So building lots of armor, hp, and a little mr is going to be really good defensively and make AP carries sort of useless.

With the advent of blackfire torch, I think mages can actually have a midgame answer to stacking hp. So instead of countering mages with warmogs and merc treads, tanks/bruisers will need to buy some mr or risk the bft passive burning them to death.

tl;dr: AD carries will be happy that enemy bruisers spent 3k on "not-armor/damage" and AP carries will be happy that the bft they're always building anyway works extra well. Warmog's has few reasons (if any) to be kept out of Dominion.


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Zeiro

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

AP will be happy that BFT works well?

Warmog has 1.50%*MHP recovery per second.
BFTorch does 1.75%*MHP damage per second.

On top of that, the 0.25%*MHP net damage is also limited only to 2 seconds if you don't have a DoT skill or very low cooldowns. Warmog's always there. BFT has a maximum uptime of 18s, and recharge time of 27s.

The other option, which is to pace your skills for the BFT damage means you're giving more chance for those bruisers to get in more attacks. Similarly, I'm pretty sure AD carries want their enemies dead ASAP as well. Dead enemy = move to next target to lifesteal from (and minions).

So yeah, I do think Warmogs counters AP Burst damage, quite directly DoT (including BFT) damage. Unless you have so much burst to overcome the huge HP they've got such that your 0.25% Tickle Damage will actually "burn them to death", I'm pretty sure AP users will not be happy.


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WorstAlistarEver

Member

12-24-2012

hell no man. not a good idea at all.


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