### Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

### 5% reduction to Black Cleaver wont really change anything

Talamare

Senior Member

Quote:
Tspiggs:
but your not proving that. the only way to reduce flat pen is to reduce how much you have i.e. 10-5. thats reduced flat pen. when you did your whole 200-40%= 120 - (10*40%) you are making stuff up. thats not how it works at all.

as some one already pointed out:
200-40%=120-10=110
10 is FLAT PEN
while in season 2;
200-10=190-40%=114
10 once again is FLAT PEN.

penetration was buffed in S3 not the other way around

Both figures are for S2
200-10=190-40%=114
200-40%=120-(10*40%)=114

Try any other armor amount with what Im showing you

Talamare

Senior Member

Sigh my cries fall upon deaf ears for none care about math

Keira Helsh

Senior Member

No no no no...
You have the order and game mechanics wrong.

Before S3 Flat pen was calculated before the percentage pen.
In other words.

If someone has 100 armor, a last whisper, and flat 10 from armor it would go.
100-10=90 <-- flat 10 from runes
90 (40%) =36 <-- last whisper.
90-36= 54 <-- This last step is since the previous step shows how much armor is being penetrated, not how much armor remains. So in S2 the remaining armor would have been 54.

Now flat is calculated AFTER % penetration.
100(35%) = 35 <-- Last Whisper got nerfed by 5%
100-35=65
65-10= 55 <-- Flat 10 from runes
In season 3, a last whisper with 10 flat pen from runes would leave the target at 55 armor against you.

The nerf isn't from the way their calculations are applied, it's from the nerf to Last Whisper.

NOW.
In both season 2 AND season 3, flat armor reduction and% armor reduction (like the old black cleaver, wukongs and jarvans Q). Those armor reduction debuffs worked like season 3 penetration does now.
100 (30) = 30 <-- Wukong Q
100-30= 70
70-45= 25 <--- old black cleaver.

in s3 armor reduction effects remained the same. It's the armor penetration stat that changed.

Also, anybody that knows anything about math and how the game works is wondering why you are multiplying the flat penetration by 40%. There is no game mechanic that does that. Flat penetration and % penetration are mutually exclusive mechanically. This is where this math argument is stemming from since you have not explained why you are multiplying the flat 10 by 40%.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_penetration