Black Cleaver pt. 2

First Riot Post
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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Hotfixes are usually reserved for game-breaking bugs, not balance issues.

The BC nerfs will be in the next patch, which is coming soon™.
Except for when you thought Lee Sin was underpowered. Hue.


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exe3

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Frankly BC needs a remake in general (why isn't there an official thread on the item for all modes?). It not being unique is stupid enough but the item has DOUBLE PENETRATION. Items should never have both flat pen and % pen imo. BC needs a new build path that removes the flat pen, maybe removes the health and makes the % shred unique (so that the one person can't benefit from multiple BC's but if multiple people have it you can get to the max shred quicker).

Some times I worry about Riot's way of balancing, the way you make some items opens them up for abuse cases but instead of removing the ability for those abuse cases you nerf the item in a way that it becomes borderline useless except in those abuse cases. WotA is a item I can think of the was needlessly nerfed because of abuse power (double Wills), why unique auras double buff the owners of the item is beyond me, goes against the idea of it being unique imo.


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Alright, let's try this again.

Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...

Would it be OK to keep Black Cleaver on Dominion? Opinions, now!
If these happen Black Cleaver will be a ultra-niche item that no ADC will ever want and AD casters will frown on in favor of Brutz+LW.

If these go through, only a couple bruisers who excel at high ultra-consistent AoE damage will ever want the item (Garen, Wukong, etc).


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TheHat27

Senior Member

12-10-2012

From what I've gathered, most people feel like Black Cleaver is fine left alone IF you pretty much make the whole item a Unique Passive item. As in, if you where to buy two it would give you literally nothing extra.

I would really love it if someone could at least try this in PBE.


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Mjaxon

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Alright, let's try this again.

Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...

Would it be OK to keep Black Cleaver on Dominion? Opinions, now!
Just save yourself the headache and delete the item.
AD Casters: Riot's favorite practical joke.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

12-10-2012

I've always believed that all Tier 3 and 4 items should be unique. Especially now that we have item diversity.


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LagartoIncognito

Junior Member

12-10-2012

I think the nerf is just overkill. Making the stats on BC not stack with itself (and maybe Ghostblade) is good. But now we are making it unique and nerfing both the %armpen and flat armpen? That's too much. It may be warranted for Dominion, and I can understand Riot doesn't want to make separate items for Dom and SR, but by doing it this way they would just be hurting AD casters too much. Please do not overkill the nerfs on BC!


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by exe3 View Post
Frankly BC needs a remake in general (why isn't there an official thread on the item for all modes?). It not being unique is stupid enough but the item has DOUBLE PENETRATION. Items should never have both flat pen and % pen imo. BC needs a new build path that removes the flat pen, maybe removes the health and makes the % shred unique (so that the one person can't benefit from multiple BC's but if multiple people have it you can get to the max shred quicker).
This is a good option, too.
AD offensive Caster build could be balanced around a pool of items rather than just two. I think Riot tried to get away with only releasing 1.5 ad caster items instead of building a suite.

Ghostblade (Loosely equivalent to Deathfire Grasp)
Primary Function: Armor Penetration
Secondary Function: Chasing, burst.
AD
Critical Strike Chance
Unique Cooldown Reduction
Unique Armor Penetration
Unique Active: Gain massive attack, movement speed, and armor penetration.

Black Cleaver (Loosely equivalent to Malady/Abyssal Scepter)
Primary Function: Teamfight Utility
Secondary Functions: Dueling, anti-tank.
AD
Unique Cooldown Reduction
Unique Armor Shred on Physical Damge
Unique Health

Lord Van Damn's Pillager (Loosely equivalent to Deathcap/Infinity Edge)
Primary Function: Late-game scaling/carrying
+AD
+Unique Cooldown Reduction
+Unique Passive 10% Bonus AD scaling on abilities.

Ravenous Hydra (Loosely equivalent to Bloodthirster/Will of the Ancients)
Primary Function: AD casters get sustain
Secondary Function: Extra AD ratio and aoe damage.
+ AD
+ Unique HP Regen
+ Unique Lifesteal
+ Unique Active Crescent
+ Unique Passive Cleave

Balance the four items around AD casters/assassins with reasonable prices for utility/power. Success?


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Kari Arisu

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Hotfixes are usually reserved for game-breaking bugs, not balance issues.

The BC nerfs will be in the next patch, which is coming soon™.
I still see no reason to not hotfix it. Black Cleaver is retardedly broken right now. The game isn't fun if you're not running a team that abuses it. A lot of us waiting on the next patch to continue playing.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisco View Post
Games not even fun anymore with this BFTeemo ****. Whoever has the better Teemo wins. So stupid. Just gonna wait till the patch before I play.
and i just went back in time to last patch literally this sounds exactly the same i mean yes its true but there is no use in whining about it