About the Teemo nerf:

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Sagovirus

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry13aals View Post
Balancing Teemo around Torment is pigeonholing him into a build where he's forced to build it. I think there was probably a better way to deal with that interaction.

On the topic of the malady: the new 0.1 on-hit didn't come for free - flat on-hit got nerfed, so did the shred, so did the attack speed. Really don't see how that item makes this E nerf a wash...
Attack Speed was nerfed for everyone, so it's not a Teemo nerf, it's an overall nerf (which actually hurts more melee ad carries and the bruisers depending on AS than anyone else...).

Same with the Shred, it was reduced because defensive stats were butchered, so it's not a nerf.

The scaling is a pure buff compensated down by nothing at all on the other hand.

Oh and you CAN'T balance a champ without taking items into accounts, except by forbidding them to buy those items, because otherwise they are op with those items (like Teemo is with Landry/Malady and even Runaan).

Either you nerf those items to the ground, affecting all other champs that can use them, meaning you need to buff them too after, or nerf the champ (or few champs) that are op with them.

Guess what is ALWAYS the better choice, SPECIALLY at a time when damage got up, tankiness/resilience got neutered, and people blow up in 2s (while Riot pretends the S3 changes should alleviate the problem of dying to fast because "it's no fun". ).


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Xivarst

Senior Member

12-07-2012

What did I miss? What nerf?


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Xyltin

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRandomness View Post
- Teemo almost always builds Malady.
- Malady got a 10% AP ratio.
- Teemo's net position is about 5 base damage (the base damage Malady lost) worse, and that's not even counting spellsword.

Although I don't think nerfing Teemo because an item he always buys was buffed is healthy for the game (it says things about champion/item dependence), he is doing about as much damage with his E as he was pre-S3 once he gets his Malady (and really, was the 0.1 AP scaling making a huge difference before then?), and Spellsword makes it even better. Basically, what Teemo loses in native scaling he is getting back in scaling from other sources.

Still bitter about the shroom nerf though
Riot said that he was already OP before the changes.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xivarst View Post
What did I miss? What nerf?
Quote:
  • Toxic Shot's intial damage ratio reduced to .3 AP from .4.
  • Noxus Trap damage reduced to 200/325/450 from 200/400/600
These nerfs (PBE)


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Xivarst

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
These nerfs (PBE)

Thanks. Hmm the shroom nerf seems a bit harsh.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xivarst View Post
Thanks. Hmm the shroom nerf seems a bit harsh.
Every shroom does currently hit harder than a tibbers.
Seems harsh, but like i said alread: Riot knew how strong he was before the S3 changes. The S3 changes made him better (2 new or remade items that make him better), so the nerfs have to be harder than initially planed.


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GotKrack

Member

12-07-2012

Delete Teemo. Problem solved.


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Xivarst

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
Every shroom does currently hit harder than a tibbers.
Seems harsh, but like i said alread: Riot knew how strong he was before the S3 changes. The S3 changes made him better (2 new or remade items that make him better), so the nerfs have to be harder than initially planed.

Fair enough.

Although I am still concerned with the Torment. Will Riot retune teemo should the torment prove to be a real problem.

My logic is the nerf had to be as hard as it is because of Torment.
However I can easily see that item becoming a problem.


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ninjaipod

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarity Belle View Post
Mushrooms were about ready to be nerfed honestly. Torment + Mushroom was just too much.
yes let's nerf a completely unreliable skill to the ground because of a item that I may or may not buy lol


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Xivarst

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaipod View Post
yes let's nerf a completely unreliable skill to the ground because of a item that I may or may not buy lol

I think the real issue is the that the item in question maybe too good. It was a no brain item to pick up on teemo. It gave hp spell pen and made his shrooms hit like trucks.

The fear I have is that Teemo is not the only one who has the potential to do terrifying things with this item.


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