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Vi, the Piltover Enforcer - Feedback Thread

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pchannington

Member

12-11-2012

Shouldn't the 'E' AA reset feel similar to Shyvana's or Rengars?


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PakourBatman

Junior Member

12-11-2012

We need a vi drill skin

i want to punch people with drills :d


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Zenmetsu Saseru

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
gypsylord:
Hey folks,
Thanks again for all the feedback. Responses to a few more common comments:
Vi stops moving when she casts Q:
I've tested this multiple times and I don't think it's the case. Could be a perception problem. What does happen is she slows herself while doing a small "twitch" to transition into the new animation. Due to the change in the position of her head during this time it may look like she's stopping, but I'm pretty sure she will continue on her course unhindered (asides from the slow). Mind testing her with this in mind and letting me know if it still feels like she's stopping?

The only time she actually stops moving is when she doesn't hit anything at the end of her dash. Which is fine I suppose, you are giving a separate command that should cancel the movement command.
Quote:
gypsylord:
Vi's E's animation is too long and causes her to lose attack speed:
When I first created the E I thought this was the case as well. After testing it, I'm 95% sure it's another perception problem. The weird things about Vi's E attack animation is that it has a cast frame of 4 while her normal attacks have a cast frame of 8. This means that the damage from your E comes out twice as fast as a normal autoattack and then afterwards it seems way longer before your next attack hits. Here's what is actually happening ("!" = hits, "-" = unit of time):

--------!------------!---- <--Normal attack pattern
----!----------------!---- <--Attack pattern with E on the first hit.


So what's happening when you use E is you still get the same # of attacks per second, E's damage just comes out faster so there ends up being a longer amount of time between hits. Is this a good thing? Seems like it's causing her to feel sluggish...

I don't quite have this problem since I usually use it after an AA. Or in the right positioning to get a kill from a runner, so the pause is a bit satisfying when I do get that kill since it lingers with some "finality" to it.

Quote:
gypsylord:
Patch Notes:
Passive:
Reduced shield duration to 3 secs (down from 5)

It feels a bit short for the early game, since the likelihood of someone popping it before the timer goes is low. Would also prompt more frequent grabs for lifesteal first.

Quote:
gypsylord:
Q:
Reduced charge time to 1.25 seconds (down from 1.5)
Changed cooldown to 18/15.5/13/10.5/8 (down from 19/16/13/10/7)

This is satisfactory, getting that first blood in a competitive setting will be easier to get with this, but not allow a re-engagement for another kill too soon.

Quote:
gypsylord:
W:
Reduced Armor shred to 20% (down from 25%)
Reduced AD scaling to 1% per 30 AD (down from 1% per 25 AD)

Aww. But this much is fine, anymore and I would have to drop a few more defense items to compensate for the loss of output.

Quote:
gypsylord:
E:
Reduced AoE range to 600 (down from 625)

I would like to keep the range, as the events where you will notice the change wont be very common. The small bit of range would also help her how to consider ranged champions with greater poke-ability. And since she only has two swings, she would have to be careful on how to do that or to do it at all.

Quote:
gypsylord:

The changes to Q are the ones that worry me most as they are the ones that will most affect her flow and feel. How does the reduced charge time on the Q feel? Is it allowing you to do more cool stuff? Does it feel less clunky? Can people still dodge the thing (they should be able to)? What about the change to the Q CD? Do you still feel like you have the tools to move around in a fight?

The charge time is quite nice, a tad more fluid and helps with initiating clutch ganks. There is still that small hitch (Purely cosmetic I think) she gets when she is in a attack move and you press it, but I am sure you will have that smoothed over eventually. Those that have an evade ability can most certainly avoid her and if others see Vi coming they do have a chance to get out of the way and punish her. While the charge rate helps her out some, the CD was a good choice to prevent her from starting another fight to soon too early in the game but long enough to prevent her from getting out of a jam.

Quote:
gypsylord:
Probably still not perfectly balanced. If she needs more nerfs they will come. Again, the goal is to make it so she isn't one-shotting people while still being able to provide significant amounts of persistent threat throughout a fight. Don't want her to be crazy OP but also don't want to over nerf.

Color me impressed, this is a rather fun first you have here and I appreciate your desire to keep her balanced properly.

Quote:
PakourBatman:
We need a vi drill skin

i want to punch people with drills :d

...Can we have a Legendary/Theme Guren-Lagaan skin? I promise to switch between Racer Vi and it, on my grandmothers grave I do.

Pleasepleaseplease.


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BlackStarwind

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
gypsylord:
Hey folks,
Thanks again for all the feedback. Responses to a few more common comments:
Vi stops moving when she casts Q:
I've tested this multiple times and I don't think it's the case. Could be a perception problem. What does happen is she slows herself while doing a small "twitch" to transition into the new animation. Due to the change in the position of her head during this time it may look like she's stopping, but I'm pretty sure she will continue on her course unhindered (asides from the slow). Mind testing her with this in mind and letting me know if it still feels like she's stopping?

Vi's E's animation is too long and causes her to lose attack speed:
When I first created the E I thought this was the case as well. After testing it, I'm 95% sure it's another perception problem. The weird things about Vi's E attack animation is that it has a cast frame of 4 while her normal attacks have a cast frame of 8. This means that the damage from your E comes out twice as fast as a normal autoattack and then afterwards it seems way longer before your next attack hits. Here's what is actually happening ("!" = hits, "-" = unit of time):

--------!------------!---- <--Normal attack pattern
----!----------------!---- <--Attack pattern with E on the first hit.


So what's happening when you use E is you still get the same # of attacks per second, E's damage just comes out faster so there ends up being a longer amount of time between hits. Is this a good thing? Seems like it's causing her to feel sluggish...

Patch Notes:
Passive:
Reduced shield duration to 3 secs (down from 5)

Q:
Reduced charge time to 1.25 seconds (down from 1.5)
Changed cooldown to 18/15.5/13/10.5/8 (down from 19/16/13/10/7)

W:
Reduced Armor shred to 20% (down from 25%)
Reduced AD scaling to 1% per 30 AD (down from 1% per 25 AD)

E:
Reduced AoE range to 600 (down from 625)

R:
Reverted AD ratio nerf. AD ratio is back to 1.4 (up from 1.35)

In the end W needed to be toned down. The burst was too high and the armor shred made it so you could never fight her.

The changes to Q are the ones that worry me most as they are the ones that will most affect her flow and feel. How does the reduced charge time on the Q feel? Is it allowing you to do more cool stuff? Does it feel less clunky? Can people still dodge the thing (they should be able to)? What about the change to the Q CD? Do you still feel like you have the tools to move around in a fight?

Probably still not perfectly balanced. If she needs more nerfs they will come. Again, the goal is to make it so she isn't one-shotting people while still being able to provide significant amounts of persistent threat throughout a fight. Don't want her to be crazy OP but also don't want to over nerf.


LOL both of the Q changes i suggested in my post on page 54 happened 0.0


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Oh, what I wouldn't do for a Gurren Lagann themed skin. Simon/Kamina though, we don't need another stripper skin for Cait

Fiora's weapon could be a drill. The Lagann drill-fists of course can work for Vi. Kamina Yi skin, after Yi gets his art reworked? No mask, obviously.

Riot pls.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

12-11-2012

I want to say again that I love Vi and she's super fun. I'm just concerned that you guys won't do anything about how some of her lines sound :< Ones like Plan? I don't have a plan and Time to save the day... or wreck it!


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-11-2012

When it comes to Vi in top I am finding the same issues as before are present;

Poke attempts with E are likely to push your lane, leaving you reliant on a Q that doesn't get blocked on ganks
Q to trade removes your escape.

Against the popular tops; Jayce, Darius, Rengar, Riven, Nidalee, Lee Sin all have stronger poke and trade, or more sustain. I've consistently beaten top vi with Nasus, which was surprising to me given how mana intensive it would be to keep wither in.

What in the laning phase is causing such cause for concern? Certainly her lategame is very Vayne right now


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FlutterShen

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Just some thoughts on the Matter. Please revert the E's range, it feels like an uncalled for nerf and was at just the right distance to 'poke' without fear of being assaulted by a champion (and considering how rare it is that the minions align in such a way that's saying something)

Her attack speed steroid could really use being on a different ability, rather than the W. It so hard to get a good rhythm with it right now. Especially when you have a fellow champion in your lane. Perhaps E?


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blah12321blah

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
gypsylord:

E:
Reduced AoE range to 600 (down from 625)


I don't mind the other changes (Q cooldown actually makes it consistent with passive shield), but why do you keep nerfing E range?

I think she can be a good melee carry and i've been counter-harassing ranged ADC bot lane thanks to that range, but as you keep nerfing it, more and more AD's are becoming immune to that. Cait is now already safe apparently, and now it's getting closer to most common ADC ranges.

Please don't kill the melee carry meta!


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Crystal Nexus

Member

12-11-2012

This Feedback is only about her visual appearance:

I have some points at Vis´s standard skin. First the standard skin is a bit to dark. The contrast should be higher or the armor colors more intense.
I find her “Neon Strike” skin is very well done, beautiful rich colors that are easy to spot. Which does not mean that her standard skin should be as colorful as the “Neon Strike”.

572455

The next thing are here hands. With the standard skin they do not harmonize as good as the “Neon Strike” skin to the rest of her body. On standard skin they looks to big, yes they should be big but they just not fit as good as the second skin.
This is because the ends of her hands are too wide. At “Neon Strike Vi” the problem is not given (even though her hands are the same size) because the ends of the hands are rounded.

572456