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Vi, the Piltover Enforcer - Feedback Thread

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RedDavidson

Member

12-09-2012

Absolutely love this champion. Feels like a perfect fit for me- love the totally brutal, just-gonna-pummel-you-with-my-fists combat, and her visual design totally compliments that. My only complaints are that I feel like the aural impact of her AA's and e could be a bit more...pronounced. More painful sounding. Overall, more impacting. Her gauntlets are bigger than Teemo, they should sound like a wrecking ball, not a relatively small tap.

Another thing, as someone noted, is that her w feels a bit... too passive. She's all in, active, mobile, constantly hitting, beating, smashing. But I feel like I'm only getting 3/4ths the smashing I SHOULD be getting. I feel like her w is too unnoticeable and lacks player input. I don't think anything could be done to fix its passiveness as far as input is concerned(besides I appreciate the effort in giving her a sustained fight presence), so making the visual and aural impacts of her W will go a long way in making it feel more "active."

Lastly, as other people mentioned, her q is very bad for closing the gap, a slight decrease in charging time would be adequate. It just feels very clunky in either using it for damage, escaping, or gap-closing, making it a one shot skill that once Vi is out on live, will probably be way too easy to dodge because people will understand its humongous telegraph and her unfamiliarity will have dissipated. Maybe decrease the slow, or the charge time; either way, make it be able to used more proactively in fights, otherwise you really only have your E to constantly be engaged in.

As it stands, Vi is a very nice and engaging champion(and will probably be my new main; I love her that much already), but I think there are a lot of things that could be done to make her an even more engaging and exciting champion.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-09-2012

shes too strongz as a duelist. Shes like Lee+Xin+Nocturne all bundled up in one champ full of opness


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Mensidiaverne

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Would like the small delay on starting your Q charge to be removed. I find it interrupts the process and is more of an impact felt by 200ms+ ping players.


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Phourc

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Feedback: The shockwave for the E doesn't exactly match the damage range, I was seeing minions get hit by the tail end of the blast but not take damage. I suspect this is likely due to the latest patch dropping the range slightly, but figured I'll throw it out there.


The W is SUUUUUPER strong but doesn't feel that amazing due to it's lack of active player control - and sometimes it lines up with an E and the titanic impact shakes the world to it's core, and then sometimes my E didn't line up and I scratched my head at the lack of damage.

I do like how the double charge on E allows you to quickly build to three hits on a single target even without aspd (swing, refresh refresh) allowing you to get your W-based attackspeed fairly painlessly if you save the charges and can get an enemy to hold still for 4+ autoattacks. It certainly gives it a bit of depth, and I thought that was pretty neat.


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Apteral

Junior Member

12-09-2012

I really wish they would scale down her gauntlets. I like the concept of them, but they seem way too bulky in comparison with the rest of her model. I'm not even saying that they need to be scaled down a whole lot, but in reality, I don't see how she'd be able to fight with them. They look really heavy. :S


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Questions:




A) Is Vi fun to play against and play as?

  • Is this a champion you enjoy playing?
    Absolutely, her personality is fun and the visuals of her mechanics are very enjoyable and you get a very kinetic feel for all of her active abilities

  • Is this a champion that you are okay having on the opposing team?
    Yes, as I presently feel she is underwhelming

  • Do you feel there are ample opportunities for counterplay?
    Given you can dodge her Q, and position yourself to avoid her E (which also pushes her lane), there are a lot of opportunities for counterplay, even without picking against her. If she is in the jungle, due to the slow on her Q she has no reliable way to gank if there are wards in play.

  • What aspects of her are frustrating?
    Vi lacks any real sustain; she will lose if she is laning due to no native regenerative or protective options, and if she saves her punch for the escape she is cutting down damage options if she engages. Her trading is weak vs most top laners. Her shield is a non-factor due to the long cooldown and fact that it can not be reliably engaged when you are looking to need it. As a jungle, I find my reliance on landing a skillshot that slows me while active to make her very passive and her trading in jungle if countered is mediocre

  • What aspects are really cool?
    Her personality, the entire feeling of punching into fights, punching over walls, punching everything, and punching things into the air. Her kit is VERY enjoyable to use, just not very effective in the environment played in.

B) Does Vi feel right when you play her?
  • Are her punches too sluggish? Too fast?
    I like the sluggish slamming, I have no issue with her current pace except for the animation cooldown after E; due to the E resetting her strikes there is no real issue with slow punches.

  • What are you building? Does it feel good on her? Should it feel good on her?
    This varies; obviously cleaver + 5 for jungle, and lane is doran's vs another Vi, or boots + 3. Jungle I try to move into wriggles and if I can get ganks in get a philo on board, hate being sans blue. If lane, in the very, VERY rare case I can have an advantage I will get phage, if the enemy haven't got damage quickly, otherwise brutalizer (especially if the enemy get one) and I can't really get lifesteal as there's no good oportunities to use it without setting myself back. I have to say, building BT, PD, Tri, IE, BC is very funny =3

    Items:
    Iron Fist: Feels very rewarding to punch into a group and slow them all, provides a lot of nice stats; not an every game option, but a good alternative to phage. I feel this is an item that Vi SHOULD have a reason to build toward due to the effect and amusingly the name of the item suits.

    Phage: A struggle; I feel like I NEED a slow to play if I am in lane,but it stops me building against my opponent meaning they will outshine me anyway. If I am in jungle, I have red so not so much an issue.

    Black Cleaver: Passively feels rewarding due to extra armour shred, coodlowns, health, damage blah blah blah; possibly too strong, but I think it makes sense.

    Blood Thirster: Very easy to farm to full damage, and not too hard to justify afer initial tankiness; you feel good just because of the farm, but it's hard to reliably go for if you know you are having to dive into the enemy with native sustain while doing it.

    Trinity: Is great on her, go for it if not doing Iron Fist; but costly, and can't be rushed; all stats are good

    Wriggles: Jungle.

  • Are you hitting skills when you expect to hit them? Do her animations and particles look right? How are her sounds? Is she too loud? Too quiet? etc.
    Skills land how I expect. Animations and particles look right though her E could do with some sort of range indicator even though it is an on next attack effect. Her sounds are, to my mind, fnie, but her accent is incredibly grating to my EU ears. I think more of her sounds should be audible to other players so they have to deal with the arrogant attitude. Even if that laugh is so very, very rewarding to use on enemies

C) Is Vi someone you feel is worth bringing to a team?
  • Present skillset
    No; she is avoidable on ganks due to the slow on approach and wards; and if it is missed she has no real follow up. In lane she has no sustain. When it comes to team fights she provides a little disruption if she has a way to engage (I often win my games off of diving over walls with Q to get to the carry, and then locking them out); I feel like I should be able to engage off of R, but that is never likely to be an option; it is a wonderful chasedown of course!

  • Assuming she eventually hits a "balanced" state, when you see someone on your team pick her are you going to feel good about it? Why or why not?
    With that assumption, I will be upset about it, because she is so fun I want to play her myself. However, if she was able to sit in lane, if she was balanced with consideration to how Riven can dash in with knockback + stun and her damage too, I would not have too much of an issue. It's a very silly question though, because if she hit a balanced state, would that not automatically qualify her. I'd want to have a tank and reliable damage alongside her.
INPUT:

I would like to say that I love Vi, even with the horrible accident I've grown to love hearing her just for the attitude. I find her animations and skills very rewarding to use visually, but not rewarding for trade or laning, and while rewarding in ganking when jungling very underwhelming or over-punishing to miss. I win more than lose, but then pbe has a lot of afkers and MM cannot apply due to the small pool of players.

However, I do feel her fists do not look impressive and could do with being reduced in size. I was dissapointed that when I heard there would be a tough as nails brawly female that she ended up not being physically impressive; she's not big, she's not burly, she's like all the other female models and to cap it off she's not actually strong enough to get all punchy herself, she needs giant power gloves. I would like to see the size reduced to be a bit more understated, and let the special effects and personality provide the true force behind the blows. Her dance is pants too.


PASSIVE: BLAST SHIELD
Unrewarding, unintuitive, non-sustaining. Because of the nature of the skills if used in farm/lane you are not going to have enough control of when you want it, and when you do control it, it is barely rewarding. You almost want to see it relocated to an active for W, or an on 3rd hit effect, the effect it has is negligable, and I've found that even when building armour heavy building for health on Vi is not rewarding enough when measured to this passive.

Q: VAULT BREAKER
This is a very fun skill, very kinetic. The visual results and the landing of the skill are gratifying and gratuitous. Jumping over walls, disrupting channels, and fisting cait are all very rewarding moments. However, the slow is crippling, especially when considered against other bruiser displacements or small cc. This leads to two issues:

A) Slow makes it very hard to land what is a skillshot that places you in potential danger with no escape.
B) Slow makes it so that an enemy can walk into you to disrupt it as an escape.
C) The reward for landing the punch does not match the risk of being slowed and using a skill shot, especially as you now have to chase.

I would want this to apply the same slow on landing if it kept the slow, to allow her to follow up properly (compare to xin dash + speed boost > knockup, or Riven 3'rd jump with still having a dash to escape). Otherwise, I would like to see the self slow removed.

W: DENTING BLOWS
I had understood that Riot wanted to move away from pure passive skills. Landing the 3rd blow's visual effects is very rewarding, the speed boost does not feel significant enough intuitively, however the damage boost and armour shred make up for that. I like this skill in its present form, but I would say that it should have an active; be it a head of steam that gives you a temporary speed boost, the shield is moved to it a Yi/Poppy style pop skill to get instant effects etc.

E: EXCESSIVE FORCE
Feels good, does what it says on the tin. No issue. If it turns out that the 2 stacks are excessively underwhelming even in later fights, consider giving Denting Blows 3rd strike a reset on how many fists are charged.

R: ASSAULT AND BATTERY
Super fun. Bad as an initiator due to Vi's lack of sustain and charge on Q as this will get you exploded, great as a chaser/finisher to disrupt escape. As an ultimate though this is more part of a bread and butter combo than an in your face amazing ultimate. If no other changes were made to Vi, I would want to see this have its cooldown reduced based on 3rd strikes of W, or kill/assist, so it could be used again in fights a la Darius.

tl;dr:
Vi = awesome funtastic character + weak mechanics
Needs sustain or a native slow (passive sucks)
Self slow on Q = bad
Dance is dumb
Vi should be big n strong, fists should be smaller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fLeFZYe_Jw (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7fLeFZYe_Jw)


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Khranz

Senior Member

12-09-2012

TIL not many LOLers know what "The Dougie" is..

@Riot: Vi FEELS awesome. Her kit is fun for sure, but my main question is why would I pick her over, say, Riven?

Compare:
Riven has a 3x instantly-responsive dash attack.
- The 3rd attack acts as a "knock".
Riven's passive adds bonus damage to her attacks after using an ability.
Riven has an additional instant dash that shields her (and is on a lower CD than Vi's passive).
Riven has an AoE damaging stun on a low CD.
Riven has a large cone-AOE ult/execute.

Vi has a single dash on a decent CD (once ranked) that interrupts her movement AND slows her AND prevents her from attacking during the charging phase.
Vi has a passive on-next-hit (3rd hit) damage boost that also comes with an ASpd steroid.
Vi has an activated on-next hit AoE attack that stores charges and has a relatively low CD.
Vi has a hard hitting single-target Ult with a small, moderate damage AoE.

Winner - Mobility: Riven
She has FOUR dashes. None of them require charging. One is on a short CD (6s at max rank).

Winner - AA DPS: Vi
With her W's damage bonus and ASpd steroid, Riven can't compete here even when taking her Runic Blade procs into consideration.

Winner - Ability DPS: Riven
Riven has better base damage values AND better scaling on most of her abilities (Q and R in particular). Vi's E has superior scaling to Riven's Dash and Stun, but it has an almost non-existent base damage (and a longer charge CD than the CD on either of Riven's abilities).

Winner - Survival: Riven
Riven's shield is on a 6 second CD AND is a dash that can be used as an escape. Her shield also scales on her primary stat, AD. VI's shield is on an 8 second CD and is tied to her Max HP with worse scaling. For a 300HP shield, Vi must invest in 1030HP in items, whereas Riven needs to invest in 130AD. Having said AD on Riven is basically a given, as all of her abilities and scaling necessitate it. Vi will likely not invest in so much HP most games (Frozen Mallet + Black Cleaver would get you close).

ADDITIONALLY, Riven has her aforementioned Q dashes giving her additional escape potential.

Winner Supprot/CC/Team Contribution: Riven
Riven has a "knock", a stun, and 4 AoE abilities.
Vi has a knock, a suppression, and 3 AoE abilities.

While Vi seems to have great damage, she has a harder time sticking targets, is more reliant on positioning (harder to get people in the cone of her E), and has far lower clean-up potential in part thanks to Riven's big ult. Not only that, but her Q is clumsy and on a long CD. Riven's Q, by comparison, is on a longer CD, but can be activated 3 times and responds instantly without interrupting Riven's movement or attacks (except for when it activates... Vi's interrupts her during the entire charge time).

Basically, I love Vi, and I've been having fun testing her, but her viability may hang in the balance, and it's all likely due to her horribly clumsy Q. Because she's reliant on auto-attacking (W procs + E) she needs to be able to stick targets. The charge time on her Q negates its potential for chasing. The fact that it interrupts her movement (bug?) and then SLOWS her means using it will put SPACE between her and her target if she tries to use it. Currently I find that using Q on a fleeing enemy only barely allows me to keep pace... and forget about anyone with a significant speed boost or Ghost. It either needs it's range increased, or the charge time reduced (probably the later). If Q was more reliable, I might consider her a viable alternative to Riven, Lee Sin, WuKong, Xin Zhao, and every other AD Bruiser that fills the position of having strong scaling, survivability, and excellent initiate/chase abilities.

If you were trying to make the Melee version of Varus' Q, consider that Varus is a ranged carry, and that a MSpd debuff associated with his charge time is necessary due to the nature of a Ranged Carry. PERSONALLY I'd rather see Vi's Q reworked to be similar Riven's multiple activations/charges (maybe a 1-2 punch that in total covers the same distance it does now, but without the silly interruption/slowdown)... interrupting her AAs feels like interrupting GAMEPLAY. NEVER. STOP. PUNCHING.


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Bidorr the Great

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Mensidiaverne:
Would like the small delay on starting your Q charge to be removed. I find it interrupts the process and is more of an impact felt by 200ms+ ping players.


I agree with this, in part. I like the dash, it does a solid amount of cc and damage without being too ridiculous, however it feels too disruptive to Vi's overall rhythm. Like, not only is it blatantly obvious when you're about to dash, but Vi is left incredibly vulnerable during the charge. I've only played a few games since her release, and I've noticed that this vulnerability is very plainly felt at almost any time in the game, save maybe for ganks initiated from brush.


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Zombiepaste

Senior Member

12-09-2012

She doesn't feel like a boxing champ......she's got fists and she hits things but she's clunky and slow. Nerf her damage and reduce her cooldowns......she really seems like soemone who wants to charge in and hit all the things. I really see her as someone who jumps into a teamfight pummels using her abilities like mad and ends up spent but happy. I mean even look at her flavor....she's reckless and a bit nutty. She should be hitting everything constantly.


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UnderAchiever

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Falcoooooooooooooooooooooooooon