Changes need to be made, Tribunal is failed system and here is why.

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Amazinggggggg

Member

12-06-2012

The biggest flaw with Tribunal is that when you get reported you go in front of a jury with a claim against you maybe even multiple people and then people look at the comments and judge the case and maybe skim through chat, the giant error is that you don't a defense. In no justice system would you go to trial and have 3 people arguing their point and you sit there and not be able to defend yourself. People can conspire and troll people and just report them with lousy claims and that person is never allowed to defend themselves before they are judged. Its a very faulty system.

I propose that if you are reported you get a notification and you get to write your defense to the report and that is included in the case that is sent to the tribunal before you are judged it is fair and can help prevent many unjust bans that have been occurring. If you can be reported than you should be able to defend yourself.


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LiteSprite

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Senior Member

12-06-2012

The difference is this is a game in which everything you said and did is recorded and presented to us to review. Also the difference is that this is a game and not a court of law.

So no i don't think it is unfair to be judged by your peers when you screw up.


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KUBlueBarracuda

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Like Sprite said, this isn't a court of law. If you wanted this to be a court of law, then you should be in the tribunal every time you break the summoner's code (or the 'law').

I don't need to see an excuse for someone that says "get aids go uninstall you stupid *** NOOB NOOB BAD BAD".

People need to grow up, act mature and polite, and we would not need to even have these 'suggestions'.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-06-2012

And tell me, what kind of defense do you propose in court if the plaintiff has video tape recording of you doing exactly what he's accusing you of doing?

Tribunal cases aren't purely a "He said / she said" case. Chat logs, item builds, and scorelines are provided as evidence for/against your guilt.


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Great Pyrenees

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazinggggggg View Post
The biggest flaw with Tribunal is that when you get reported you go in front of a jury with a claim against you maybe even multiple people and then people look at the comments and judge the case and maybe skim through chat, the giant error is that you don't a defense. In no justice system would you go to trial and have 3 people arguing their point and you sit there and not be able to defend yourself. People can conspire and troll people and just report them with lousy claims and that person is never allowed to defend themselves before they are judged. Its a very faulty system.

I propose that if you are reported you get a notification and you get to write your defense to the report and that is included in the case that is sent to the tribunal before you are judged it is fair and can help prevent many unjust bans that have been occurring. If you can be reported than you should be able to defend yourself.
A client who represents himself has an idiot for a lawyer! So do you also propose to have a lawyer write your defense for you? You are so ill informed on the American Justice system let me help you out. In REAL court defendants have a 98% conviction rate. In LoL defendants have a 80% conviction rate. Let me translate this for you, the judges of the cases are fair. We are your advocates when we read cases, we WANT to hit pardon. At the same time we have a reponsibility to the young kids who play this game to keep it pg-13. The tribunal is not broken, it is not flawed, it is 100% fair and far more fair that our legal system. Really it is apples and oranges.


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Amazinggggggg

Member

12-06-2012

No but what about cases where you cant see the actions that have taken place in the game, where someone is making moves that intentionally detriment the plays of the fellow players that stuff is not in chat log, say they cripple their teammates lane and now the teammate falls behind and they are accused of feeding. Or for example what just happened to me i got matched with a party of three and they fed and blew lane for me then accused me of everything, so in chat it shows me arguing my point and 3 people saying I'm wrong and calling me a liar and etc. and the report says 3 people saying I'm wrong and then they go to chat and it would appear I'm wrong but if you say watched the game you would know and so in hand i would have to appeal to the tribunal in the game chat for them to understand what happened. And what about cases where there are just little kids who are being obnoxious and losing and saying I don't care I'm drunk and a competitive player loses their cool and goes off on them and then they get reported for harassment. There are flaws and you should be able to speak your case in defense when it is presented to tribunal.

And the court system does not have a 98% conviction rate that is beyond false, my immediate family member has been a city attorney and also a private attorney and from personal experience and talks with him I can guarantee its not 98%, present facts don't state percentages if you have no citation because that number seems beyond bogus.

I'm just saying if someone can write a paragraph about how you are wrong then you should be able to write a paragraph reasoning yourself or a defense.


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazinggggggg View Post
And the court system does not have a 98% conviction rate that is beyond false, my immediate family member has been a city attorney and also a private attorney and from personal experience and talks with him I can guarantee its not 98%, present facts don't state percentages if you have no citation because that number seems beyond bogus.
Are you saying you think the Tribunal has a 98% punish rate? It's actually in the 60-70% range these days.

Maybe that's not what you meant to imply? But if not, I have no idea what you mean there.

Quote:
Or for example what just happened to me i got matched with a party of three and they fed and blew lane for me then accused me of everything, so in chat it shows me arguing my point and 3 people saying I'm wrong and calling me a liar and etc. and the report says 3 people saying I'm wrong and then they go to chat and it would appear I'm wrong but if you say watched the game you would know and so in hand i would have to appeal to the tribunal in the game chat for them to understand what happened. And what about cases where there are just little kids who are being obnoxious and losing and saying I don't care I'm drunk and a competitive player loses their cool and goes off on them and then they get reported for harassment.
Those are two very long, confusing sentences. Have you been punished for these situations? Or are you just proposing hypotheticals?


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Amazinggggggg

Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel View Post
Are you saying you think the Tribunal has a 98% punish rate? It's actually in the 60-70% range these days.

Maybe that's not what you meant to imply? But if not, I have no idea what you mean there.

No the previous poster said that American Justice system has 98% conviction rate and Tribunal has 80%, I was defending case that US Courts do not have 98% conviction rate.


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazinggggggg View Post
No the previous poster said that American Justice system has 98% conviction rate and Tribunal has 80%, I was defending case that US Courts do not have 98% conviction rate.
Oh, I missed that part. Sorry for the reading fail.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazinggggggg View Post
No but what about cases where you cant see the actions that have taken place in the game, where someone is making moves that intentionally detriment the plays of the fellow players that stuff is not in chat log, say they cripple their teammates lane and now the teammate falls behind and they are accused of feeding. Or for example what just happened to me i got matched with a party of three and they fed and blew lane for me then accused me of everything, so in chat it shows me arguing my point and 3 people saying I'm wrong and calling me a liar and etc. and the report says 3 people saying I'm wrong and then they go to chat and it would appear I'm wrong but if you say watched the game you would know and so in hand i would have to appeal to the tribunal in the game chat for them to understand what happened. And what about cases where there are just little kids who are being obnoxious and losing and saying I don't care I'm drunk and a competitive player loses their cool and goes off on them and then they get reported for harassment. There are flaws and you should be able to speak your case in defense when it is presented to tribunal.
The problem with this logic is that there's no excuse for verbal harassment or abuse.

It's somewhat easy to determine the difference between a bad scoreline and intentional feeding. And the fact of the matter is, while we regularly see people posting their reform cards to argue against their ban when they were clearly banned for verbal abuse, it's rare that we ever see someone posting their reform card arguing that they shouldn't've been banned for intentional feeding.

I don't see anyone who posts a reform card where the only punishment justification would be intentional feeding coming to the forums arguing some case where his 4 teammates caused the ridiculously bad score line. And do you know why? Because intentional feeding cases typically have players with boots 2/5 and five Zeals in their inventory and they can't argue against their intentional feeding ban.


But when it comes to verbal abuse? Verbal abuse is verbal abuse. There is no excuse for it. There is no justification for it. If you have to justify the things you typed into chat, then your ban is justified. Harassing other players is not okay, no matter what they do. If the other player is violating the summoner's code, report him. If you can't play the game without harassing other players, then you're going to be punished by the tribunal (and deservedly so).


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