Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


@ Riot / Xypherous : Hybrid % Penetration Item

1
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koftagy

Junior Member

12-06-2012

1] Importance of the Item :


If you built full AD/AP , you can counter build your opponents' corresponding resistance stacking late game with % Penetration

through either Last Whisper or Void Staff

but if you built Hybrid (on the champions who benefit from it)

, you cant get % penetration for lategame to counter build your Opponents' Resistance Stacking

and this is the main reason Hybrid builds are bad late game .


Because building Last whisper + Void staff costs TWO slots and is VERY gold inefficient .

Which puts you in a very big Slot and Gold disadvantage

, so you cant really make use of the 2 penetration items and be the "decent damage dealer" you wanted to be in late-game .



Who Could Benefit From This Item ?


1- Hybrid champions like (Jax , Akali , Poppy , Kayle , Teemo , Nidalee , Ezreal , Kogmaw , Skarner , Jayce , Varus , Kennen , TF ) .

2- AD-scaling Champions with Important Magic Damage Abilities for Ex. (Mundo's Q and w , Shyvana's abilities , Udyr's tiger burst , Warwick's abilities ,.. etc) .

3- AP-scaling Champions with Important AD Damage Abilities for Ex. (Sion , Evelynn , Elise .. etc) .

4- Some Champions in the Future from the above 3 Types.


Instead of having their important Magic/AD damage abilities "destined" to have no any penetration

and thus dealing so much lower damage than they should against the large Armor / MR everyone had built at Late-game.



2] Building the Item : I think this item must be ...


1) Greatly cost effecient because it can't be 2300g (LW) + 2300g (VS) = 4600 Gold !

which is about double the amount of gold the full AP/AD needs to % Penetrate for Everything on his kit .

- So it should be something like Pick axe (875g) + Blasting wand (860g) = 1735 + The Hybrid Pen item (1765g) = 3500 Gold , more or less .


2) Offer the same 35 % penetration as LW/VS to be effective . Because each % penetration will be for only half of your built damage .

Even though hybrids tend to have more raw damage than the pure , they dont have that much multiplicative scaling (Infinity/DeathCap) .

- The item can be adjusted to ~30% if found to be OP though ...

Or it can even have some scaling with time like Rod of Ages if it's causing Problems Itemizing Armor/Mr against when rushed Mid-game

, though i think the large cost on the item recipe (1735g) would help prevent that .




3] Clear Balance Issues :


This Item will clearly make (Jax , Akali , Poppy , Kayle , Kogmaw's ult poking , Teemo) be OP late-game imho .

and also maybe cause some champions when built full-tank to deal some more damage than they should late-game .

but still it's nothing that can't be handled by numbers , exactly as full AD/AP champions are balanced knowing that they can get a 35% Penetration

on All their kits late-game from items which exist since the game was born (LW / VS) .


EDIT 1 :

this item's passive must not stack at all with (Last whisper / Void staff) passives or pure champions would abuse it for even more penetration .

This item is not meant for pure champions at all . it's meant for mixed damage and hybrid scaling champions only .

by giving them an option to counter build resistance stacking just like the options (LW/VS) pure champions have .


EDIT 2 :

Due to the stupid FOTM health meta , releasing this item before such a meta is fixed would actually do more harm than good to the game .

, simply because more champions in the game will be able to itemize for resistance penetration properly , when health stacking is already op -_- .

But this should be temporary until riot fixes this meta .



4] Effect on Build Diversity :

Hybrid item building may not just be about getting tri-force , rageblade , gunblade , "nashor's tooth ?" for Offense

, it's probably also doable by many different mixes of non-hybrid items .


- Worth to mention it can give the new Muramana a "chance" to be a good late game item specially on carries who want

the most damage possible late-game as it's activated autos deal magic damage .

And may make Ad Carries' magic poke (Varus , Corki , Ezreal , Kogmaw ,.. etc) to be consistently decent across the match .


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koftagy

Junior Member

12-10-2012

Bump ..

My bad for putting this in the Item Discussion , Xypherous and Riot Staff only reads the General Discussion .


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RockJockey

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I agree.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koftagy

Junior Member

12-12-2012

Bump .


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Beaumains

Senior Member

12-12-2012

The major attraction of hybrid champs (and building them hybrid) is that their raw damage output is usually better built hybrid than either building them straight magic, or straight physical, and it's often better than other champs' raw damage output. This is why Corki seemed OP back in the day ('cause he was originally a strong hybrid), and this is also what has made Jax, Akali, & crowd all pubstompers.

Because hybrid built hybrid champs have (or should have) better raw damage than single-type counterparts, we can afford to give them a hybrid pen item that penetrates less of both than their straight AD & AP counterparts. Such an item shouldn't have more than 33% pen (when 35% is now the norm), but also shouldn't be less than 25% of both, and that only if Hybrid champs really are capable of doing on the order of 15% - 20% more damage than an AD or AP carry (excluding Sion, Nasus, and Veigar, who have infinite damage potential).

Similarly any flat hybrid penetration should be on the order of the runes, cutting 20 - 23 of each type where 25 is the norm, and 10 - 12 where 15 is the norm. A % pen item should build out of Pickaxe and Blasting Wand, and either be an alternative to, or an upgrade of Guinsoo's Rageblade. The latter idea pulling in a Tome & Longsword. A basic flat item should build out of the Tome & Longsword, and either upgrade (or possibly not) with Kindlegem or something like that.

Final build costs should be more expensive than non-hybrid items, but not exhorbitantly or ridiculously so. Making such items will open up the playing field to more diversity, specifically the sort where we see 3 main damage dealers on a team, and the sort where one or both traditional carries are replaced by hybrid one(s).


1