Is it just me or is machete a noobtrap?

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FirinUpMuhLazer

Senior Member

12-06-2012

It seems from the couple of games I played that jungle speeds between a cloth 5 and a machete start are very similar. As well, you don't go anywhere near as low health with cloth as you do machete.

In my view the step towards preventing level 2 ganks by junglers is by tricking people into buying machete and being too low to actually gank. Cloth leaves you with plenty of health, and helps ensure that most tops dont just blow you up.

With that said, jungle rewards are pretty low. The only two jungles I see as viable are heavy counter junglers (shaco, shyv, mundo etc) who can abuse the low health that most other junglers will have doing camps, and junglers with heavy ganking potential (lee, jax, probably mao though I don't play him so I'm not sure). These champs can afford ganking level 2, perhaps missing it but not losing too much health, and coming back in ten seconds when the laners guard is down. Theyre going to be focused on getting blue and red and then just camping lanes, since the jungle difficulty does'nt pay off and the increased risk of counterjungling due to low health clears is likely to be prevalent.

As well, there isn't much you would want to build machete into, it has such weak chains. I definitely can;t see any reason to build sightstone, its pretty expensive and adds very little to your champ. Definitely not any of the upgrades, none present any utility either in gold value or time value.

It really seems to me that all machete does is limit the junglers capabilities


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CaptSchwann

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Some people just dont know...


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type1Rush

Senior Member

12-06-2012

This might be a noob observation, but isnt Sightstone seperate from jungle knife?

But on sightstone, I actually do like it on some of my junglers, because I ward heavily anyways, so it saves me LOTS of money by rushing it before anything else - as in on my first back - ((the health doesnt hurt either)).. I find I dont really need to rush even level one boots, so I just decided to get something else first.. Just my opinion.


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Commander Yocko

Member

12-06-2012

he's meaning spirit stone... but the upgrades are not worth it until the tier three and those are only sub par versions of what a laner would use.


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FirinUpMuhLazer

Senior Member

12-06-2012

sorry yeah I meant spirit stone, sight stone is good... I think, still trying to do the math and economic value of benefits now and future pay for itself wards.


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smXho

Senior Member

12-06-2012

if you compare it by that 1 single item, yea

but machete builds into great things such as spiritstones


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FirinUpMuhLazer

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by smXho View Post
if you compare it by that 1 single item, yea

but machete builds into great things such as spiritstones
That's what I'm talking about, cloth five has multiple situational benefits while not being far behind the perfect run through of the jungle without interruption while using machete,

Furthermore, spiritstone and its upgrades aren't exactly the most cost efficient, nor situationally useful items in the game. There's very few situations where i'd say I'd want them over any other similar priced item at any point of the game.


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Iridos

Senior Member

12-06-2012

The tier 3 spirit stone upgrades are excellent... and on tankier junglers, the +25% damage to monsters that comes with those items is critical in the later game, when they aren't gaining any more damage against jungle camps (because they've already maxed their jungle damage skills and don't build damage items) but the jungle camps keep getting stronger.


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notFREEfood

Member

12-06-2012

If you try to invade my jungle when I'm on Diana and using a Machete you're going to be surprised that I've got quite a bit of health.


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FirinUpMuhLazer

Senior Member

12-06-2012

I think you're the only one I've seen say that spirit stone upgrades are excellent. As well, if anyone is expecting a tanky jungler to waste a bunch of gold on adding 25%+ damage on monsters... well theyre doing it wrong. Tanky jungles arent supposed to be doing real damage to monsters past the first two or three clears, theyre suppose to be soaking up damage while their dps' do damage. I would be kind of mad if my tank built weak damage instead of tankiness.