Why remove Liandry's Torment on Dominion?

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Ceruse

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Senior Member

12-06-2012

I realize that this thread probably has a better place here than GD
I have a question, and I'm not sure whom to ask(Morello,Nome Xyph, Meddler, ect?). A while ago, RiotNome indicated that Liandry's Torment would not be available on Dominion since it can be considered a weaker version of Blackfire torch. If I am not mistaken, it was talked about how the team wanted to avoid leaving trap items or items that are not fitted for the different maps, which is quite fine.

So here's my situation. I love playing Sejuani and I really like playing Dominion. (yes, I know how many perceive the Bacon lady, but I really enjoy playing her, so lets move on) Currently, Liandry's Torment would probably fit like a charm on her, since I've tried Blackfire torch and found that she did well with it.

So, I would like to know if Liandry's Torment falls too much into the niche-kind-of-item problem or if the only reason it was not implement into Dominion was because of Black torch? Currently, a lot of casters and on-hit characters get Blackfire torch, and is currently working a bit on the strong side if I heard correctly, thus the incoming number modifications on it. With that in mind, would getting to choose between the ''get more health but a bit less potential damage'' Blackfire Torch or the ''get less health but a bit more potential damage when movement mitigation is applied'' Liandry's Torment be problematic? (obviously, I'm no game designer, so which stats would be different is in your camp)

Liandry's Torment would naturally apply (so no other items) for the following champions:
(Do correct me if I'm wrong! I'm not 100% sure if I'm missing some or if some of them really do apply! Furthermore, I'm not saying the item is good on all these champions, only saying which can activate it with their skills)

Ahri's charm (?)
Akali's shroud
Anivia's kit
Cass' miasma / back ult
Eve's ult
Fizz's trickster / shark
Galio's eye beam
Gangplank's passive and ult
Gragas' body slam
Grave's smokescreen
Heimy's ult (does Btorch apply on his turrets?)
Irelia's equilibrium strike
Janna's Zephyr
J4' shield
Jayce's thingy
Karma (I know she has changes coming, so love beam?)
Karthus' wall
Kass' force pulse
Kayle's Reckoning
Kog' Muffin's ooze
Leblanc's chains
Leona's off-center ult
Lulu's kit pretty much
Lux's Lucent Singularity
Malphite's shard
Maokai's smash
MF's make it rain
Morg's ult
Mundo's cleaver
Nami's ult (any other?)
Nasus' wither
Nautilus' riptide
Nunu's snowball and ult
Olaf's axe
Ori's dissonance
Rengar's Bola
Rumble's harpoon and ult
Sejuani's kit
Shaco's shiv
Singed glue
Sona's power chord
Swain's bird
Syndra's force of will
Talon's rake
Teemo's shrooms
Trundle's pillar
Tryndamere's shout
Twisted Fate's red card
Twitch's Venom cask
Urgot's shield combo slow
Varus' hail of arrows
Viktor's field
Vlad's pool
Yorick's slow omen
Zed's double slash
Ziggs' minefield
Zilean's slow
Zira's melee plant

Phew, that took a while to check X_X
I never realised so many champs had an innate slow mechanism.
From the 58 characters with a slow, we could say around 30-ish could make use of it, albeit it might be sub-par or used on unorthodox builds for some of them.
But we can see a few that would truly benefit from it, either from being bursty caster or simply because of their kit. Those that come to mind for me are Anivia, Cass, Fizz, Karma?, Karthus, Lulu, Nunu, Sejuani,Swain,Teemo, etc.
Heimy, Nautilus, ap burster, and other can probably do quite well with it too.

So, how many champions do we have currently? 109 with Nami?
So, let's say about 28% of the champion rooster could use the item, while around 10 to 14% of that can do really benefit from it with only their innate slows.

If we think about it,hypothetically, there is a similar amount of carries who would specialize in items like Bloodthirster, PD, IE. Other characters can do too, but its not everyone that fit that kind of build in an optimal fashion.

While thinking about it this way, would that make Liandry's Torment a niche item, or an interesting option for some characters? And if you think it is still too similar to Blackfire Torch, why not move the numbers a bit?

So yeah, is it possible to discuss a bit on this please? : D


TL;DR: I like Sejuani and bacon, and I think Liandry's Torment has a place on dominion.


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67chrome

Senior Member

12-06-2012

I'd say it's not in there because Blackfire Torch makes it redundant.

So basically the same reason The Bloodthirster and Sanguine Blade aren't in the same modes, or Rabadon's Deathcap + Zhonyas aren't in the same modes as Wogglet's Witchcap.

As different items there are cases were one would be preferable to the other, but for the most part they're to similar to justify having in the same map.


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Ceruse

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Senior Member

12-06-2012

They are indeed similar, but there is enough characters that can build it and use it well that its a waste not to include it in dominion.