So what CAN I say to people?

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Yeeehawww

Senior Member

12-05-2012

First, I'd say don't tell people what to do, it's more likely to lead to the situation that happened with graves. All you need to do here is insert words that change it from an order to a suggestion. "That's not a very good item, you might want to sell it for X". Instead of things like "you should be getting all the farm anyways" which some people would surely assume meant you were attacking their inability to cs, you can avoid it by saying something like "try to focus more on farming and I'll do my best to harass them and keep them out of your hair".

Secondly, don't tell your jungle not to gank, not directly. You could say something like "X, try to help (other) lane, we should be ok down here for a while".

I'm not saying anything you posted is worthy of punishment, it really isn't. However, being too blunt won't help, as seen by graves getting pissy. Make suggestions, give opinions, and be happy, basically. "That was a stupid play" is incredibly different from "That probably wasn't a good decision", and that little difference can completely change how your teammates react to you. In the first one you can easily come off as mad and aggressive, hinting your teammates are bad players, while in the second one you'd come across as more of a "you did bad, but it's ok and we'll get past it" attitude, all while still (usually) getting the point across that they shouldn't do things like that again.

Also, use "please", I know you're trying not to spend too much time typing but it makes a big difference.


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HotshotGG5

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingTrollNoob View Post
I shouldn't be forced to be some fake bubbly overly nice tool just because I live in fear of some butthurt kid crying about how he is going to report me.
It would keep you from being banned. If we were all overly nice tools wouldn't we get along better? I think you'd better consider doing this.


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Haljegh

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Since the update, people are going to be trying out the new/changed items and you need to be tolerant of that. There are a few viable options that build from Avarice, and although Avarice potentially gimps your early game, if you get Crits it can make up for lost guaranteed damage.

You implied that Graves is dead weight immediately after conversing with him. Arguing with your lane partner and not working together is the easiest way to lose bot lane. If your partner rushes Avarice, he'll have +2gp/10 and gains 10% extra gold from most cs; as the support it's in your best interest to secure as much cs for Graves as possible in order to maximize the benefit of this item.

The advice is good, but if you want people to actually listen to you, you'll need to phrase your criticism a bit more positively.


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fuzzyjon

Member

12-06-2012

No. If graves took offense to JUST THAT (if that is only thing you said). You should not have any suspensions. I don't care how soft skinned people are they are playing a competitive game and refuse to play competitively because they are trying to troll you and harass you. THEY should be banned.


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gnfnrf

Senior Member

12-06-2012

That literal chatblock, as presented, with no other notable chat, is not punishable. With context, it is either positive (if in other examples it is more a mutual conversation) or marginally problematic (if it is part of a trend of polite bossiness). But it isn't punishable in either case.

Note: This isn't a judgment on any actual case, just the theoretical one that contains that exact text. If you want an opinion of an actual case, please post a reform card for it.


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800eloPubtrash

Senior Member

12-06-2012

"Well played" "You're correct" "Thank you"


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LargeSnorlax

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Why do people actually have trouble with this?

You're playing an online video game with strangers you don't know - What do you think the response will be when you tell a stranger to do something because they're not doing it right?

What happens when I tell people in ranked to do things? A nunu is constantly wasting his money buying 2 stacks of wards and has no items - And doesn't actually ward the map. So, I mention to him to buy a sightstone - As he's already spent far more money than 700g on his stacks and stacks of wards.

What's the response? "sightstone sucks wtf im just buying wards". People aren't going to listen. Any suggestion that isn't worded neutral is just going to be taken as an offense, because people are stupid.

Just communicate with objectives, goals, "I'm warding here", "Invade their red", stuff your team needs to do. Communicate when you're going back, do retreat pings if your teammates are in stupid spots, and keep typing to a minimum, any time your teammates are focusing on typing, they're not focusing on the game.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-07-2012

As a player who is seeking that balance between minimal typing and getting the most effective communication (because comm = coord = wins), one thing I've noticed that seems to work across the board is to preface my comments with qualifiers.

For example, I might say to that graves:

>Graves
>recommend/suggest <X> instead of avarice;
>[give reason; e.g. Doran's gives sustain for more farm, or, boots let you dodge more, or, Graves scales w/ <stat/item> best]

If he showed an uncooperative attitude, and otherwise demonstrated lack of skill, I'd probably just let it go; I wouldn't say anything to the jungler unless it looked like he was at a loss (e.g. trying to make a bad gank at bot work), and even then I'd try to minimize any potential slight that may be taken.

I realize you don't want to worry about being overly nice, and can agree to some extent. I err on the side of being "nice" because attitude, or percieved attitude, is contagious. That is, if you even come across as negative, you bestow a negative attitude on everyone else on your team who reads those words, even if only a little, and that negativity leads in turn to more screw ups & bad decisions (and executions) that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

Maybe that Graves discovered something about Avarice that nobody else has figured out yet, has practiced that build path, and is actually pretty decent with it. Maybe he's just comfortable with that route. Maybe he hasn't been able to farm very well and that's Plan B. Trying to force someone mid-game into a path they're not familiar with can be more detrimental to them (and thus your team) than letting them play out a poor decision with no input at all.

I'm not saying you need to cater to every thin-skinned player, but you would be wise to recognize that how you say what you say can have a drastic impact on the game overall, for better or worse. It ultimately comes down to a matter of winning.

By the way, if someone does retort like you say that Graves did, a short apology (even if you're not at fault) can go a long way; a simple "sry; didn't mean to boss" can put a player like that back at ease, and reset their perspective of your input. Many should realize the alternate intention and remember that from that point on (though you would still be wise to re-adjust your manner).

Remember, people are prone to take what you type or write in the worst possible way. If there's a hidden, unintentional slight, it becomes an overt assault on their intelligence, skill, and character; if there's a word or phrase that has two meanings, the offensive one is automatically meant; this is just the way it is, and mitigating these unintentional byproducts will improve your overall experience in the game (and everyone else's).


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OhBoyItsaMegaman

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Even blunt corrections are not punishable. It comes down to intention. If your intention was to make the team win (and by your version of the story, it was), then great. If your intention was to piss off Graves, not so great.

With a name like FeedingTrollNoob—even if it's a forum alt—it is hard to have faith in your good intentions. I would definitely vote Pardon if I saw that conversation happen exactly as you stated... but based on evidence that I wouldn't have while reviewing the Tribunal case (your name), I think it would probably be the wrong verdict.


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RubenatorX

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Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingTrollNoob View Post
The part I highlighted is completely subjective to the individual.

When I'm playing ranked, I don't have alot of time to use chat, I'm 100% focused on winning every game. I'm watching my map, looking at my opponents, trying to keep track on where their jungler was last seen, well, I could go on but the point is I don't use chat unless it's gonna help me win. I don't have alot of time to hold your hand and ask nicely why Ryze has a Manamune. Of course, on the other hand, I'm not going to be the guys who spams in all chat "MOTHER F*CKING RYZE F*CKING MANAMUNE NOOB FEEDER GG I AFK".

I suppose what I'm asking, is if I am safe being in that middle ground between the two. I shouldn't be forced to be some fake bubbly overly nice tool just because I live in fear of some butthurt kid crying about how he is going to report me.
And I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summoner's Code, Section IV
Remember, taking a jab at your friend in the middle of the game is a lot different than making a glib remark at a complete stranger. Someone who is unfamiliar with what you consider playful may take your comment as an attack and react unfavorably.


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