The math on Cleavers and Armor

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SN Fate

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Going into a game as MF. stacking cleavers to see how devastating my ult can be.

- Finished. only had 1 cleaver before I won...


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otirruborez

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhreakInfinity View Post
ok so, true damage is a thing now, pretty much everyone can do it. Who cares? It's an easy counter, don't buy armor, buy HP. Same for all true dmg, buy HP is the solution. And I tell you with these new items you so can buy hp and dmg at the same time, there is nothing to fear.
you're missing the point of effective hp. hit points with 0 resistances is still very squishy.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhreakInfinity View Post
ok so, true damage is a thing now, pretty much everyone can do it. Who cares? It's an easy counter, don't buy armor, buy HP. Same for all true dmg, buy HP is the solution. And I tell you with these new items you so can buy hp and dmg at the same time, there is nothing to fear.
Right, you can buy HP and Damage... which is why people are stacking cleavers. Now you have health, deal true damage, and have tons of AD.

TL;DR - Remove health from The Black Cleaver. What if it had spell vamp instead? (Unique)


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Infirc

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
True. Luckily, it's usually the enemy arms and legs.
this made me giggle


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shearmanator

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

What you don't realize is that this build is squishy. Yes it does damage, but you also die fast. Ranged AD, and Mages will still out dps/burst you. Working as intended, nothing to see here.


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shearmanator

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

Also, I just did some math, and replacing your last BC with a bloodthirster will always net you more damage. Replacing it with a hydra will yield aproxamately the same damage, but allows for AOE damage and application of the debuff. Stacking is strong, but it is comparable to all other builds. you just get more cdr and health, as opposed to lifesteal, or aoe damage.

Still working as intended


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

12-07-2012

It's not about getting more damage in raw AD, or having lifesteal or AoE. Many of the champions that use Black Cleaver have some other form of sustain or built-in AoE. You're looking at the item in a vacuum.

It's the fact that in addition to maximizing CDR, getting additional tankiness, and taking 30% of your enemy's armor off the top, you're also getting a chunk of AD and a chunk of flat penetration. You're getting everything your champion needs to deal as much damage as possible, without really sacrificing survivability or a critical statistic.

For example, when a caster goes for the most possible AP, they sacrifice utility, survivability and CDR.

When an ADC goes for the most possible DPS, they sacrifice utility, survivability and CDR.

When an AD Caster goes for the most possible damage... they sacrifice... well, practically nothing. Stack Black Cleavers, get tankier, max CDR, ignore enemy defenses (except HP which is far more expensive) for the entire team, and get more raw AD. Oh wait, you sacrifice mana - a nearly limitless resource in Dominion.

That's the issue. I don't think this would be much of an issue if you remove the HP from the item... as I've said before, I don't believe it should be there in the first place.

Even if the item isn't actually overpowered, it limits build diversity.


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Viktorious Alekt

Senior Member

12-08-2012

bump