The name/title has been changed to Mara - The Dreamweaver. The forum doesn't like me updating the title of the post, however =P
Tags: Support, Procmancer, Shield, APC, Dream, Female, Nightmare, MCCC, Ammo, Dual-Effect
Criteria for MCCC(P) challenges:
Note to self: Will be making some considerable changes later tonight, if I get the time. Mostly focusing on how the secondary effects should work. I don't like the idea of having two separate abilities be based off of the idea of smart-casting like this, and will probably remove both interactions in favour of things like a secondary cast effect.
I do still want a rapid fire ability, and have been considering ways to make that work with the Q, since I like it's spammy AoE use.
Additionally, I'll probably be reworking how the wish stacks work entirely. The first thought before the current system was put in place, was having charges be built up gradually over time when nearby enemies or allies that are low on health. That was thrown out because it would be useless at the start of a fight when most of her abilities would be rather useful. However, I'm thinking that by taking a bit of a hint from the energy system, where it regenerates at a set rate, but can also be bumped up quicker by landing skill shots or other key components of the champion's gameplay, would make this more interesting.
Regardless, I need to work on this a bit more later tonight if I get the chance =3
Alright, I heard you're lacking time, so I thought I could review your champ so you feel even more hard pressed!
First of all, I think the concept is really nice. Creating a champion around clutch plays would feel satisfying in a lot of ways. The biggest hurdle in that will be balancing the clutch players (pros) with the non-clutch ones (casual). The champion should feel rewarding in both cases, and that isn't easy (or she loses her clutch play aspect).
Now, the lore is a bit... rough, but still very solid. I likke the direction you're taking with it and although I feel the "goddess" theme is 'meh', I think you used it right.
The passive is nice, using abilities correctly gives you stronger abilities, the only thing that is weird with that is that it will evolve into 2 possibilities :
1) You will eventually trade "power now" for "power overall" (increase efficiency, reduced AP)
2) Fake passive, AKA you use abilities, consumes stacks to re-gain stacks, the passive is always full and you basically have a non-depleting fury...
In case #1, it could lead to frustration, never knowing if what you did is optimal or not, so basically it should be relatively clear in what case using the passive is recommended (AKA for clutch plays).
In case #2, scrap. Or rather, rework.
Q : You guess that one right, using smart-casts isn't wanted... you have to find another way to give the player a choice (like double casts, or auto-trigger on clutch), firstly because not everyone wants a default smart cast, and next, because not everyone knows how to smart cast (meaning that some would never proc the secondary effect), and lastly, because some have smart casts repathed to QWER meaning they couldn't not smart cast.
Otherwise, the idea is nice, but the ability to repeatedly heal (1s cd) is way overpowered... you could basically run tear + philo + chalice and have your carry dive 1v5 because you perma heal him (since you gain back the orb you consumed).
W : once again, you allow for WAY too much power if he has orbs... this ability means that as long as you have orbs, you're impervious to skill shots (you are teleporting all around the battlefield). you could also simply mash W to hit single target (potentially cc'd) like 3-4 times per second, making it very hard to balance the double proc with the single proc. Otherwise, the cast to dmg, cast to teleport is an idea that has made its proofs in other games and that I think would still be viable in this one (although I find it frustrating that you don't have a grace period at the end of the range).
E : Once again, I find it sad that smart casts can't charge it up, it should be like Vi or Varus where you can simply move the target as long as you didn't second cast (although it could be nice that instead of being slowed, you are snared, or weakened during that time if the ability is quite strong). Also, 500 radius is terrihuge, if this ability does any damage, you might just have one of the strongest lane ganks in there (given the fact that casting it doesn't show a huge target like Veigar/Elise). So yeah, I think that once again, making it clutch will make it impossible to balance due to the possible amount of damage you could deal...
R : While the idea is good, it could only make it in HoN/DotA where powercreeps is omnipresent... Basically, ever X seconds, you can execute a plan flawlessly... if anyone's flash is down, you can just ult, run to them and prepare your CC... Nunu is bot and losing a fight? Ult, let him ult, and wait for he boom to go off. Malphite just ganked yo ufrom a brush? ult and let everyone run away (needless to say Ori also wasted her own ult, since she ulted malph). Also, I'm wondering what would happen with Tenacity, if Tenacity affects it, it leads to unintuivtive developments (projectiles going off sooner than expected, or Tenacity unfreezing later than champ), or even maybe frustrating (Ult Irelia, she run away). Same with cleanses (GP>Solarias). If Tenacity doesn't affect it, it leads to frustration even more, because there is no counter plays... Imagine Veigar's ult that scales on your AP, AD and HP. Or a DFG that deals %hp damage, strongly scaling with AP... or Unnerving Locket...
So basicaly, the concept is nice, but rough, and I think you tried to give the kit too many things (see the Lulu syndrome). First of all, all abilities have so many different uses that all of them will probably be `
A) Balanced, making it an OP sum (see pre-nerf Jayce)
B) Balanced sum, making all abilities underwhelming (see current Jayce, who is barely played). Basically, LoL is like American Football, you don't give a **** about Jack of all Trades, you need specialists. Udyr is good at everything, but master of none; Udyr isn't played.
C) False choice. 1 option is favored over the other and thus the other is in 99% of the cases, a bad choice (but I think you understand what I mean by "False Choice" pretty well :P).
In most cases, since you use CD resets, it's the scalings that will make or break it, If you skip the scaling on reset, that champ is probably better to build tanky to rely on resets to dish out amazing damages (fun fact, Chalice build into tanky). If you don't skip scaling on resets, you can probably be the best glass cannon ever. If you reduce base damage on resets but not scaling, there is no incentive to build less AP, since it's counter-productive. So basically, the only ways to use cd resets is to either make it on big events (kills/assists) or to make it permanently resetting, AKA a false choice (Zilean).
Also, in that same direction, I think that all abilities have too many effects... your Q has heal + dmg, which is fair. your W has mobility + dmg + slow + haste, your E has dmg + buff + debuff, your R has well... the ultimate utility... Only thing you could want more is a global cleanse/heal with that...
If this champ is ever released, I run a Morgana/Malzahar, MF/Varus, Nunu, Darius, Solarias comp and win every single times since they once again dived my turret with or without wanting it...
Yarr, thanks. There's a few things I have in mind. One of which is a matter of changing the passive entirely, and having only a single ability gain stacks (perhaps her ultimate so that it gains charges over time, and can freeze a single unit in time, friendly or enemy, dunno yet since that could lead to troll fodder).
Additionally, I'd also like to perhaps make the Q always have a very low cooldown, but increase in mana cost the more it's used in a short time, to prevent overspamming. Perhaps the idea of a tether to an ally or enemy which drains mana per second? Not sure yet, really, but it won't be 1 second cooldown, since that doesn't really gain much extra benefit from extra CDR, of which far too many support items come with.
Still, the idea of being able to continually spam something like 10% of missing health is restored, or 10% of current health in damage is taken, means yeu can weaken a high health enemy quickly (without risking a kill steal from yeur ally), or can powerfully restore an ally who's crippled. Unfortunately, that same rapid casting has other issues, such as the heal will mean it's not particularly good for a clutch play. To that end, a shield which is remarkably powerful, but holds only a very short duration, is far superiour to such.
Regardless, it means I might be converting the effect considerably, probably to a potent shield that lasts 2.5 seconds and severely reduces damage while it's up (maybe 30-70% damage resist, based on level?) when used on an ally, or if used on an enemy, drains X% of their current health.
Actually, now that I think about it, it could be possible to just have the Q hold the ammo directly in and of itself... have it so that it doesn't use ammo to use the shield effect, but has a longer cooldown. If it's used on an enemy, however, it consumes ammo but has a remarkably fast cooldown (think Teemo shrooms, in a way), where yeu could spam it on an enemy repeatedly, but casting it on an ally breaks the capacity to do that.
Anyway, Thayen looked the design over earlier and had many of the same complaints, and I concur with the assessment. There's too much being crammed into too small a space. I need to specifically think very carefully about exactly whot I want her to do, and ensure she has only the tools to do that, and nothing else. This will require some trimming, but it does mean things like the W is going to be toned down specifically.
More specific than that, the W is going to be a straight line damage spell with low initial damage, but insanely high scaling. The point is that it will allow her to be used as an APC if the player desires, but if built as a low AP support, she'll only be on par with other supports' damage output. The teleport is also going to be kept in, though, since I really do want the idea of the two different skills, Q and W, sucking up ammo, so that the player has to determine which one is more important at any given time.
I may adjust the W to do no damage on the initial cast, and instead provide a slowing debuff only, then it warps her to the end location and damages if she activates it a second time. If farming minions or finishing off an enemy, it works great, as it would be her "finishing move" if played as AP, and a useful mobility/escape mechanic otherwise.
As for the E, I think I'm going to keep the concept of the enhanced damage to enemies, but instead make it an area of effect that's persistent for a duration, with the idea being that she can intentionally make certain areas very bad to stand in, forcing enemies to reposition themselves. The targeting, I think I'll change to it being somewhot similar to Cassiopeia's poison where it leaves a puddle on the ground which grows over time. While I debated on the concept of having the second cast force it to grow to full size instantly, I've decided it's not that good a choice, while in the middle of writing this paragraph, and will instead probably just have it cover a standard, flat AoE, and rather, will have it cause a secondary effect when cast again. While I'd considered a burst of damage, honestly, this is already taken care of in the Q and W spells as is, and I don't want that overlap. Regardless, I'll think of something to put here. Perhaps a CC of some sort which drains charges per 0.5 seconds, allowing for up to a 3.5 second slow in the area? No, it'd be kind of meh. It might be better to just have the area turn into a slowing field, or suck enemies back into the center on a second cast, as I do rather like repositioning enemies. On the other hand, this does cause a false choice where telling them to run, but that's also the wrong answer... I'll think on it more. Regardless, the change of a secondary effect and an AoE of this manner will remove the need for smart casting entirely, as well.
The R issue is powerful, and while Thayen suggested making it 3 seconds, I dunno. I might make it only affect a single target by somehow displacing them for a moment. I still like the idea of freezing an enemy or ally, and making them untargetable for a bit, but making it affect the entire map is just too much. Still, having a global range for one single character affected, that could be worth it.
I might just have it make a single targeted ally be able to move as normal, but be immune to absolutely everything, and perhaps gain a movement speed for that short duration. Then again, this gets awfully close to Kayle's invulnerability, so I'll have to think it over carefully. I do know that it won't use charges, however.
Also, while I think of it, the passive's benefit for stacking charges is rather clunky and unwelcome in it's current incarnation. I still want to emphasize that idea of "clutch play". On the other hand, it has to be something that it's a rather nice benefit to have until that clutch is needed, and it's a willing sacrifice to give it up.
The exponential growth was a really bad option, I realize now that I think of it, in that once yeu'd used a single charge, yeu'd already lost 50% of the bonus, making the rest not worth keeping. Instead, I think it might actually be better to have the charges be generated over time (rather than on hitting an enemy, which causes too many problems with the secondary use abilities), and have it so that the extra charges generate faster the fewer yeu have.
Still, part of the requirement of the contest is for there to be a benefit to having those charges. As a support is often targeted early in the fight, and a clutch play requires her to be alive later on in that fight, I might just give her a large amount of CC reduction if she has a lot of charges present, so that she'll be ready to cast at a moment's notice. It's no good to be set up for a clutch play, only to be stunlocked at the instant it's needed most. This would also mean she can't use her escape mechanisms or attacks on anyone early on, if played APC, and hope to still keep the benefits from such.
The scaling is a bit wonky at the moment. I'm not sure how I'll set that up just yet.
Regardless, I've got some thought put in to this stuff, and thanks to Thayen and ploki for their own thoughts on the matter ^.^
Still, I'm tired, so I'll probably just mull it over some more overnight and fix it up in the morning =3
lol... I find it amazing how I learned "bad designs" (can't remember Zileas' calling) from you and you're the perfect example of it :P.
Once again, you Q falls into the unclear optimization/false choice problem... You have the choice between nuking down an enemy (hard), or protecting your carry. In most cases, you will want to nuke the enemy down (With similar values, Lulu almost never shields, because once caught, the carry is dead, you prefer to kill the threat). But your idea (stack consumption + low cd on enemy, high cd no-stack on ally) is even worse when it comes to false choice... it basically means that you have 1 good way of playing her, it's to nuke-nuke-nule-nuke-nuke => Shield.
As for the W, it's a lot better ,but you might want to make it so your best poke doesn't require you to commit so bad... Right now, W slows on hit, and damage on teleport, but that means that to damage with W, you have to skip behind them. Imo, inverting the 2 effects makes much more sense (damage ->tele+slow, meaning it'll help for escapes/chases, in which cases you'd teleport) unless you WANT the conflict to stay (somebody once said all rules are there to be broken).
E : Only thing I can say is beware of AEs, they're really underestimated when it comes to zone control... Would Cass' poison be big right from the start or expand just a bit more, she could probably stop all baron by herself... Same goes with Anivia, both of these can basically stop baron fights 1v3+ without really committing to the fight...
R : Well, there's the grief alert that will ring whenever you wanna stasis an ally, but otherwise it feels a lot more under control this way.Still, global targeted CC is op...Also, you'll want to add an effect (most probably damage) so that cleanses/tenacity doesn't deny you so easily...
A list of stuff she needs to do (for personal reference):
- Lots of clutch plays
- A way to set up an opponent for a kill by weakening their health without killing them outright
- A shield for those "zomg don't die!" moments; make this very, very potent of a shield, but on a very short duration; maybe 2 second duration but near invulnerability for that time
- High maneuverability to get into position to make those clutch plays just when they're needed most
- A way to set up positioning for allies, by either making them faster or slowing enemies
- Some form of semi-hard CC that lets her break channeled spells
- A way to make standing in certain areas disfavourable to enemies, but allow them the freedom to move out of such (this almost guarantees her CC will be a silence)
- A way to deal high burst damage to finish off an enemy that's been weakened, if she's playing AP; keep this high risk, high reward
- A global clutch play that she can use no matter where she is, for those perfect moments when she just HAS to be able to save someone's life, but still be useful during a team fight
- Preferably, have her normal abilities all be spammable in some fashion, but chew through her ammo system quickly by doing so. This forces her player to think carefully about which spells to consume ammo for and when, rather than just spamming them when they're up
Also the rules require the following:
- No self centered AoE
- Must have at least 1 ammo ability
- Ammo must have a benefit the more ammo there is
- Must focus on "gift giving" somehow
- At least 1 ability that has different effects when hitting allies instead of enemies
Update, appearance & Lore information:
Silver line running from chin to forehead, nose is more of an outward depression in the vague shape of a nose, rather than a functional one. No mouth is obviously present. Silver line branches outward into a golden headband, which curves around the back of the head and branches off into a pair of wide, thick horns which are bent slightly inward. Nearly black skin with bioluminescent blue glowing markings along such and iris-less eyes which are pure white. No wings in the back, specifically.
Do a mudbox rendition of the head, then photoshop to add colouring and touchups of the bust.
Remake to where a fallen star will land in an unused portion of the world, probably somewhere south of the great barrier. Have her be found by a smallish village, and someone wishes they knew whot she was; the act of requesting the wish causes their mind to be flooded with information detailing that she's one of many minor deities known as the "fates" which dictate reality, and in her personal case, wishes. It would turn out that she was harmed specifically by a void creature, implying that their assault upon Runeterra is nearing. She is unable to be affected by her own wishes, and yet she refuses to have the fate of the world she's tied to (similar to a dryad, on a more celestial scale) be devoured, so she requests to fight in the league to better learn how to apply her wish granting in combat situations so that she'll be ready when the war draws near.
The updates to the lore provides more attachment to the world, an expansion of the storyline, and a stronger reason to join the league than previously provided.
Original version before edits (v0.1)
New ability notes before next major draft revision:
New Passive: You Can't Avoid Fate
Able to cast abilities and summoner spells at all times, regardless of circumstance. This means she can be stunned, or suppressed, and it will root her in place, lock down her abilities, and so on, but she can cast normally despite such so long as her target is in range. She will be 100% immune to silence in general, so that she can always perform her clutch plays.
Q: Actual shield which absorbs damage. The idea of reduced damage taken was a poor one, as it's less "clutchyish" in the sense that shielding someone with one hit left isn't that effective. It would just imply the best time to use it is at the start of the fight before everyone's cooldowns go out. Instead, have this version be a very, very powerful shield but on a very short duration (IE: Stronger than even Karma's shield, but it wears off in about 2 seconds, so enemies who just wait it out can bypass it, making it perfect for an actual clutch play). Additionally, as this is a clutch effect, have the shield on allies consume a limited wish charge for each cast, and the number of charges increases the base absorption of the shield by 10%. This was going to be the AP ratio, but would be weaker by far for an actual support build than an APC build, which is silly. As such, increasing the base shield amount is much more effective.
The secondary effect, will instead be that it can be targeted on an enemy instead, which will drain part of their CURRENT health. This specifically means it can't kill anyone, only weaken them, perfect for setting up new plays.
While the ability only has a 2 second cooldown, an individual champion (ally or enemy) can only be affected by a Limited Wish once per 10 seconds (affected by CDR). This is kind of ripped directly from Nemhain's design, but should work nicely. The icon above a champion's head would be a shooting star which fades out from 100% to 50% then cuts out entirely. The reason for this is that it may be confusing at values of 20% or less to look at, so fading to 50% fixes this issue.
Additionally, each time it's cast on an enemy, it builds a limited wish charge by siphoning off some of the target's desires, up to 7 maximum.
Note that this means that wishes have to be created in combat, and spamming them out too quickly will deplete almost all mana immediately due to increasing mana costs (a la koggy the kogtastic kogtillary piece).
Unlike any of her other abilities, her Q *CAN* be cast on herself! This is very important to AP builds who want to be able to use her Q/W combo to burst at target down, as it'll be needed to give her any hope of surviving the charge she does in a group fight scenario.
E: Initial cast causes an orb to fire out in a straight line at about ~1200 move speed, roughly tripple that of most champions. Any enemy hit is marked with a movement slowing effect, making it ideal for preventing enemies from running or chasing an ally. Additionally, she can trigger it a second time, consuming two limited wish charges to teleport herself to the location of the orb before it vanishes, refreshing the cooldown and dealing low base (about 25/level) magic damage with remarkably high scaling (about 0.75 AP ratio) to any targets that were slowed originally.
This allows for a number of effects to be intuitively set up; if she's chasing an enemy, she can get into range with them for the kill easily. It also puts her into a dangerous position, so that it's a high risk/reward choice to do so if used offensively. Additionally, it means if she builds AP, it will let her kill a champion that was crippled by limited wish drains via multiple rapid bursts of damage.
This was going to be about 1.5 AP ratio, but since it can be recast up to 3 times on an enemy in a row with full charges, this would have been flat out overpowered. Next, it was going to base AP ratio off of charges, but also kind of improper balance, and really harms an APC build far more than it should compared to the support build. As such, the base damage should be increased by 10 per charge; so 70/50/30 bonus if she uses it 3 times in a row from full charge, for +150 total bonus damage, added onto about a 125x3 hit and 2.25ap ratio. This comes out to 525 total damage +2.25AP over all three hits; high risk, high reward.
This isn't as potent as it first sounds, if comparing to someone like Cassiopeia; it grants better mobility and chance to hit, but also places her more directly into harm's way, while quickly reducing her CC resistance.
Overall, this is an ideal spell for evading capture, supporting, clearing minion waves (which love to form nice, long lined ranks), and bursting down an enemy champion quickly if she's built APC. The updated version removes a lot of the unnecessary fluff that didn't really help it much.
Creates an area on the ground which silences enemies for as long as they stand on it. She can activate the ability a second time to prematurely detonate the area, removing the zone of silence AoE immediately, but applying the silence effect for 2 seconds to any enemy that was on the zone and dealing damage based on the number of charges she has. This detonation consumes 2 limited wish charges.
Damage should be roughly about 6% +2% per limited wish stack (or 10% to 20% based on charges) of the target's current health. This is a great opener for the start of a fight.
Global Cleanse to her entire team, but more effective; removes all negative effects of all kinds, including suppression and DoTs, leashes and so on. The ultimate in clutch plays. Would not affect the ultimate of Karthus as it isn't really a debuff, so much as a warning that damage is about to occur. She would still need to shield a target to fix that one.
Further notes will be updated in a moment, if anyone sees this while it's under construction. Just saving so I don't lose my notes =P
© 2014 Riot Games, Inc. All rights reserved. Riot Games, League of Legends and PvP.net are trademarks, services marks, or registered trademarks of Riot Games, Inc.