On Nami's Visual Design

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Wytsfs

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Took long enough to type, here we go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Part 1: Let's just get this out of the way. She's got scales on her skin, and those are clearly represented as part of her body, until a point not far below her bellybutton (or where it would be, at least). At that point, that layer of her splits, opening up to reveal a more traditional skin tone underneath, smooth like a normal human's skin, which ends up showing much of her body in this new way. Most notably, her cleavage is on full display, made even more noticeable by her jewelry. This is the part that I have the most trouble understanding. It could be just a readability issue, I suppose. Perhaps her scaly outer layer is supposed to be understood as basically just clothing. If so, please know that it doesn't look that way at all, at least to me and several others with whom I've talked. It looks like she fillets partway up her body, and I'm not seeing why aside from the obvious chest window.
The only problem I had with the V was when it seemed to pull away from her flesh beneath her breasts while being attached on top, that doesn't seem to be the case with this art. I guess it was changed somewhat and that's good, she looks more consistent. With regards to the difference between the green scales and the smaller, more cream colored scales: Take a look at the pic of a goldfish here http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/...30-pounds.html and note how it's belly scales are are smaller and a different color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Part 2: There's a thread about this, already, here. The whole point is summed up best by this reply:
You want her to smile?

No.

Looking at her lore, Nami's people waited for a savior who never showed at the appointed time. Nami decided to take things into her own hands and fight Cthuluesc monsters for the item the savior was supposed to get. Upon succeeding she was proclaimed Tidecaller and went to wait for her land based counterpart, who never showed. Nami went in search for the moonstone or its bearer, but the land is a big dangerous place with a large population and impossible to search in a timely manner. So she joins the League, and with League matches being televised across the continent she can let it be known far and wide that her people are in need of this mythical stone. Unfortunately the cost for this is that she has to fight and die over and over for people she doesn't really know and many of whom she probably doesn't like.

So no. She's not a murderhobo, but I see little reason for her to smile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Part 3: Syndra, Zyra, and Elise already had slim limbs and slight waists. I feel like there was a lot of room to push her silhouette, beyond the simple "but she has fishy non-legs" aspect.
I don't believe a mermaid would be a good choice for that as mermaids, like most fish, tend to sleek and fast body shapes. Even if she was based on a shark sleek and fast would still be the way to go. That said I do agree nearly all the League champions have very similar body types. Even the much lauded Diana. Personally I'd like to see an elderly female. Not like that stupid stereotypical witch idea I saw get tossed around just a dignified but fairly ordinary looking elderly female magic user. We've got elderly men. Also, I'd like the next monstrous female to be velociraptor themed, but I just like raptors.


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Jayahballard

Senior Member

12-05-2012

You are trying so hard to passively make it a stop making sexy female figures complaint.


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Wytsfs

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
It feels like a slight step forward among several steps back. Yes, this is better than Zyra and Elise, but those two shouldn't be the baseline. We shouldn't have to justify things that way.

How do you interpret those chest frills? You can like them no matter what you think they are, obviously, and I'm not about to try to convince you to not like them, but I'd like to know what they make you think of.
I want to answer this question too. The shape of the fins actually reminds me of a type of fish I've seen once before, but I can't recall the name unfortunately. In any case I see, and I'm not sure I'm using the right descriptive words here, "balancing" fins. Basically fins not used so much for propulsion as stabilization, not unlike the keel on a boat. Though they might also be sensors, to detect subtle variations in water currents .

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Clothing and ornamentation, then. That begs the question: Couldn't the same effect be achieved -without- as much of her "skin" showing? In fact, it's worth noting that a lot of fancy royal clothes are often quite the opposite of revealing.

Again, I'm not trying to just say "no ur rong shut up" or anything like that. If anything, I'm glad there are people presenting other possible interpretations!
All of her skin is showing. She's basically naked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
That's an interesting point. She does obviously have some *** appeal, but that doesn't mean there's a flaw in her design. That could just be another quality of hers, existing right alongside other characteristics.

However, this implies that she's a character in a void. As it stands, the sexualized visual designs of other female characters must be brought into account when considering new designs. On her own, Nami's sexualization is really not too bad, in terms of raw immodesty. Among her peers, though, this severely detracts from her characterization, in the same way that her proportions (thin limbs, skinny waist) do.
Ok. I started out giving you the benefit of the doubt. You were like you said just wanting a wider range of body types among the female champions. But this is pure anti-sexuality bull ****. *** appeal does not make her a character in a void. There is nothing immodest about sexuality. And neither her sexuality nor the proportions of her body detract from her characterization. That doesn't even make sense how could they detract when it's just an another aspect of her character?


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Brandi

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

What's more bothersome to me is it appears the anatomy is a bit off, it looks very awkward.


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

I've said it before, but the frills just seem really out of place. They seem to be there with express purpose of covering her breasts as if her breasts are something that need to be covered up. This is implying the presence of nipples and her breasts being so humanoid just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of her aesthetics.

I think Nintendo did a better job with their design of Queen Rutela in Twilight Princess for the regal type non-standard mermaid. The breasts in that design are perfectly streamlined with the rest of the body and don't send the conflicting messages that I personally get with Nami.


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Taliesin

Senior Member

12-05-2012

I still don't quite get why they felt it necessary to give her pseudo-cleavage. I mean, okay, they want the character to be visually distinguishable as female. So they went with the easy route and gave her breasts. Fine. Lazy? Yeah. But go with what works, I suppose.

Then they gave her some weird "skin-cleavage" where her outer layer is actually peeling away to give the impression of a low-cut shirt. Why? I can't come up with a single reason that isn't "secks sells". Oh well.

Hopefully, they don't decide that when Anivia gets a remodel she needs a great honking pair of **** to "visually reinforce her gender".

:/


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Fubby2

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benadryl Jackson View Post
While I understand your concerns, surely you can admit that Nami is a big improvement over previous fare.

Consider Zyra and Elise, who are basically just generic comic book females wearing skin-tight monster costumes. At least Nami looks like a legitimate mermaid creature of some kind, even with the weird chest frills (which I actually like).
They are cliche for a reason. What nami looks like to me is they got a cool design, then riot said "now how to we add boobs to that", then the end result just looked retarded.


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Cuix

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytsfs View Post
Lotsa things!
Yes, fish can have parts with different colors. That's not what this looks like to me, not at all. This looks like a scaly outer layer, with more traditional and vulnerable skin underneath. Moreover: boobs. Boobs tend to not be scaly, and these really add to the idea that her outer layer is split.

I'll grant you the point about her smile. I still feel like we've got too many grr rawr champions, and in quick succession, but perhaps Nami's splash is not the place to start.

It makes sense for Nami to be sleek, but look at the difference between her waist and the rest of her body. Also, her gray half-skirt is not particularly hydrodynamic, by the look of it. Her skinny arms, too, are not quite necessary, nor do they seem to fit. They could be sleek while being more muscular, which would also make sense when considering her weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayahballard View Post
You are trying so hard to passively make it a stop making sexy female figures complaint.
I don't mind sexy females themselves. Ahri is great! I mean, if anything, that gal is almost too -modest- in her attire. LeBlanc has reason to go for sexy; her main issue is the skirt belt thing. MF is absolutely great; her sexualization makes her a really fun and interesting character. Hell, not all females who are "sexy" are "sexualized". Kayle is pretty hot, to me, and she's in full armor. We can have sexy females. We can have lots of 'em, even. I just think that this is a case where she was made sexy and it is taking away from her character. (I think there are several such cases, really, but this is the one that's immediately relevant.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytsfs View Post
Woosh
Again, the presence of these fins can be justified, from the most basic level of "fins on chest", but in this case they're splitting up from her belly and placed quite cleanly to reveal cleavage. She can have balancing fins, but this isn't the way to do that.

I know her skin is showing. Note: "skin". When I say "skin", I mean the lighter under-layer of not-so-scaly flesh as opposed to the green outer layer.

She has Zyra's arms and waist, Elise's arms and waist, Syndras arms and waist... that's what I'm saying. Her character is much less interesting when she's, visually, another female cut from the same template + tail. Also, again, I'm not against sexuality; I'm -for- characters standing without needing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
"visually reinforce her gender".
Gonna give Iron the benefit of the doubt, here, and say that Riot probably doesn't think that way anymore. Or, at least, they don't design that way. I can believe "*** sells" more than "females need cleavage". Honestly, I think what happened is that someone came up with the idea and liked that it would make her more "interesting" and "varied", not really thinking it through fully.


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chimecat

Member

12-05-2012

What's wrong with thin limbs? Unless your point is that every female is on the slim side and that that's getting boring, which may be valid. Is there something wrong with being skinny?
Edit: doing that thing where you quote someone and replace their text with something clever is only funny the first time; then it comes across ******y.


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Cuix

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimecat View Post
Clever!
I do the quote thing because it lets me reply to a bunch of stuff without taking up tons of space. This is a slow thread; people can read it without too much issue. It's not about being "funny"; it's about being efficient.

My whole point is that the League has too many females with the same basic proportions, silhouettes, etc. Nami on her own would be kinda alright (though the split skin still weirds me out), but Nami among her peers is a problem.

Just to be clearer: Skinny can be completely fine. Slim bodies are perfectly acceptable. Kat, Diana, Akali, and Janna are some easy examples of gals that are slight with good reason. Assassins that are small just look right, really, and Janna should have a sort of wispy feel to her. After a while, though, it gets to be too much. Women with different bodies are yordles, Annie, Anivia... uh, yeah. Riven kinda I guess?


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