How do you feel about the current magic/armor penetration system?

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Fabs457

Senior Member

12-06-2012

it feels like their intention was to make SR more entertaining to watch due to prevalence of more damage in teamfights... before end-game.

dominion suffers the fate of being held to similar thought processes... even though it didn't share the same problems. things feel sped up... and teamfights now feel like you either go all-in and look to be on the better side of a trade-off or your team gets absolutely wrecked due to the sheer amount of damage being thrown about.

its like those old stand offs during the american revolution when people line up with rifles on either side... you trade until you have more alive than the other team... not much room for disengagement or supporting your carry. everyone is doing big dmg


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Personally, I think the change to the armour penetration formula itself was a mistake.

My understanding is that Riot didn't like the way that early flat pen became less valuable later in the game if you bought a Last Whisper / Void Staff.

My response would be that yes, that's true, but why is that a bad thing? It makes for some interesting decisions. Investing into early flat pen makes you an early powerhouse, but can be countered if the enemy invests heavily into armour / resists. On the other hand, going for scaling stats (AP, AD, crit, AS, CDR) gives you less early power, but potentially a much stronger late game after you finish the VS / LW.

Now, early flat pen is the right answer. Late flat pen is the right answer. Late % pen is usually the right answer too. There would need to be a far higher tradeoff in other stats for this to be an interesting decision (they could, say, increase the itemisation cost of both flat and % pen by 50%).

(Then there's Black Cleaver itself, which is grossly OP, but that's a different topic)


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Talith PA

Senior Member

12-06-2012

New system is great. Values weren't tuned correctly. Wait another patch for some tweaks.


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Mad Suppordle

Senior Member

12-06-2012

The idea behind the system was good, its no longer a huge gold waste go get flat pen and % pen items together. Adds build diversity, but yes, the numbers currently are just wrong.


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Ahlen

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

They wanted faster paced SR games. The problem is Dominion is already 4x faster paced than SR.

Now it's 8x faster paced than SR.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
The idea behind the system was good, its no longer a huge gold waste go get flat pen and % pen items together. Adds build diversity, but yes, the numbers currently are just wrong.
Well, let's see. With removal of global pen aura...

Assuming Ghostblade + Lastwhisper, you will do more damage than pre-superpatch on targets with 150 armor and less on targets with more than that. Against an 100 armor target you will have gained about 12% damage.

Assuming Ghostblade + Lastwhisper + Brutalizer, that number is 200 armor. Against an 100 armor you will have gained about 16% damage. Against 150, that's 7% damage.


So, all in all, a minor damage buff for AD casters when the next patch rolls around. If Xypherous nerfs LW hard enough, we might actually be looking at a net damage nerf for Brut/LW or even Ghost/LW. Not sure if this s a positive or negative change overall, but if the QQ on SR is strong enough, AD casters will be forced into Cleaver/LW/Brutalizer build at the very minimum if they want to be able to feel the S3 buffs. This means less gold for IE/SwordoftheDivine combo or less gold for defense items.

Knowing how bad riot is with numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if that will be the end result. I'll wait till they announce the exact number changes for LW/BC to see if going physical tripen will be a net buff or nerf for AD casters damage output wise compared to the old standby of Infinity Edge or Sanguine or Hexmaw or whatever (or the new Hydra).


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Skulleer

Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Well, let's see. With removal of global pen aura...

Assuming Ghostblade + Lastwhisper, you will do more damage than pre-superpatch on targets with 150 armor and less on targets with more than that. Against an 100 armor target you will have gained about 12% damage.

Assuming Ghostblade + Lastwhisper + Brutalizer, that number is 200 armor. Against an 100 armor you will have gained about 16% damage. Against 150, that's 7% damage.


So, all in all, a minor damage buff for AD casters when the next patch rolls around. If Xypherous nerfs LW hard enough, we might actually be looking at a net damage nerf for Brut/LW or even Ghost/LW. Not sure if this s a positive or negative change overall, but if the QQ on SR is strong enough, AD casters will be forced into Cleaver/LW/Brutalizer build at the very minimum if they want to be able to feel the S3 buffs. This means less gold for IE/SwordoftheDivine combo or less gold for defense items.

Knowing how bad riot is with numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if that will be the end result. I'll wait till they announce the exact number changes for LW/BC to see if going physical tripen will be a net buff or nerf for AD casters damage output wise compared to the old standby of Infinity Edge or Sanguine or Hexmaw or whatever (or the new Hydra).
As a Talon player who built all the pen items before and after the patch, I'm certain that ultimately it will be a net nerf to him when all of the dust settles. Oh well. Funny thing is, even when doing true damage with a lot of AD as Talon, you're nowhere near as deadly as a Kat or Akali is vs. a group.


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Eloquid

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Games actually got slower and more boring. Faster pace was only in the beginning until ppl realized they were way more squishy than in S2. Then all became more defensive in their play, so it's now league of farming, exact opposite from what they tried to achieve.