Jungle Update Cons

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ThelAswad

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonedPeace View Post
The whole point is so that you farm jungle longer.
What don't you get about that.
Riot wanted laners to decide who wins lanes. Not junglers.
You're just raging because you cant auto kill with hec coming out of whatever bush.
You have to make decisions now.. You have to decide whether or not the lane is being aggressive enough for you to gank or if you have enough health.

You have to make actual smart decisions and that is the only thing that is more difficult.
You can't handle anything more than the easy jungle of season 2 because it had room for error. Now it doesn't. Just be a smarter player.
As if no one ever warded 'whatever bush', and Hecarim just auto kills people. Do you actually jungle? I have the impression you don't.

The point I've been trying to make is that the current paradigm gives you this choice, but, it's a mug's game. The choice you should have made was for your solo top to have a partner, because there is no reason for you to jump through all these hoops, pick up lousy masteries and runes, and have to choose smite over Exhaust or Ignite so you could maybe kill someone in the mid or bot lane after you decide that it's maybe something that could happen.

You've managed to ignore the whole premise about the difficulty of the jungle, and that is that there is still a slot in a lane you could occupy, and you will probably do better there no matter how good you are at jungling.


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DocLolliday

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Junior Member

12-04-2012

Can anyone bring the "fun" factor into this? It's not being OP that makes Jungling fun (Because its not OP to jungle), it's not snowballing lanes (Which skillful play in lane can and should avoid getting ganked), its the fact that ganking is FUN. Is this a game or has it really turned into a professional sport? I really liked it as a game because jungle makes MOBA's interesting.

The excitement of the game may have gone out the window quite a bit. The coordination between team members to gank lanes certainly has lost its edge, and maybe Riot has too in trying to cater to the pros. Thanks for this thread.

And for all you haters of the rest of us "haters" on these patch changes: we know what Riot "meant" to do by the changes, we're just saying we don't like it because we like to Jungle for the fun of ganking. So please stop repeating the Riot lines and bring logic to the table about the fun of the game.


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Kajra

Junior Member

12-04-2012

I really dont see what people are complaining about. Ive since jungled all day and have pretty successful ganks and come out with a lot of money even just chilling in the jungle. The only thing the new jungle (and new items) have done is make assassin junglers actually viable again. Everybody seems to forget that since season 2, assassin junglers got the biggest shaft to the point that unless you were on a specific ranked team that already had tanks or played regular normals against bad players OR were at very low elo assassin jungle was ****. When was the last time you saw a Shaco or Nocturne do anything late game besides split push?

New jungle made it so assassins can come back again since they can get a decent amount of cash to buy a few items. Yes, it is harder to gank now with more ward options but that doesnt mean it is impossible. If anything, they made it so someone couldn't just pick up maokai from the free week and steam roll every lane with 0 runes/masteries just because they come in with a bind and exhaust.

All im saying is give it time, rework your runes/masteries and experiment with a few different items (you honestly dont need to start hunters machete) and actually play the game instead of whining about it within the first day cause you're acting like Stewie from Family Guy.

Yes, it's new. Yes, it's unfamiliar. It does not make it impossible or horrible, it just makes it different.
For those complaining that it is harder to jungle at lower levels that was always suppose to be a thing. Jungling is a speciality lane. It is not for everyone and actually should take a good amount of skill to do successfully. Up till 20ish you're still working on last hitting mobs and having map awareness anyway so 2 people in a lane helps both of you as opposed to having 1 unskilled guy going against 2 unskilled guys. Of course, this does nothing against smurf accounts, that's just lv30 guys being dicks picking on new players.

But the point im trying to make is to first change your own stuff around and do some testing yourself instead of whining about it right off the bat. Assassin jungle is back, enjoy it.


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Drakojan

Member

12-05-2012

What's this I hear about not being able to clear without runes and masteries? It really isn't as difficult to clear the jungle before level 30 as you guys make it out to be.


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Drizzt Strife

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friesguy Nuggets View Post
That's the thing, jungling was so easy that nearly any champ could do it. While that's amazing at our low levels, Riot is looking at the higher level play. The pros only use junglers who can do their job with little gold and can gank hard early to help snowball lanes. Riot didn't like that junglers were deciding which lanes won regardless of the skill of the laners, so now they've made jungling tougher for junglers that needed to gank.

You're not going to see much Alistar jungle now because he needed to gank to keep his gold up, but since he'll be at low health if he decides to clear two camps, he can't gank as much early game anymore, which makes the laners' skills be the deciding factor.

tl;dr Riot doesn't like lanes being decided by early ganks, but by the laner's skill.
Riots intention on this patch was to open doors for more junglers not close them shut.


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Drizzt Strife

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Point being guys, that it is really hard to actually gank a lane as a jungler now because you cannot dump builds/runes/masteires into movement speed at early levels. Almost all laners start with boots of speed and potions. The meta for S2 junglers was to run Boots of speed, and potions as well with most junglers dumping runes/masteries into movement speed. This actually allowed junglers with no gap closers to gank lanes more effectively with the enhanced movement in comparison to a standard laner. S2 jungle was not easy at all, because it allowed teams to punish the enemy if they made mistakes (ex: pushed too far, played too aggressive, didn't ward their lane) Also map awareness could make or break a situation. If you saw the enemy jungler ganking bottom or spotted him from a ward your team palced in the enemy jungle clearing a specific camp, you could use that information against them by either counter jungler, ganking a lane they will have no presence in any time soon, and so on and so forth. Also note that champions with AoE should be able to clear jungles faster, because it is a trade off of having those abilities in the ****ing first place. Excuse my french but it's kinda ridiculous a single targetting Warwick has identical clear times as Mundo/Udyr/Shyvana


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Sleipnir of Hel

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Give your jungler a hard leash, and I mean HARD LEASH, to the point that jungler himself finishes both wolves and blue with near max hp, and...suddenly the entire complaint of anything jungle related is out the window. The only problem I see is not every jungler can start boots and pots now. Not that you want to, since you already have great move speed without boots now, so grabbing cloth and 5 pots is actually a lot more viable.


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Kajra

Junior Member

12-05-2012

To the guy saying you cant jungle with olaf, hecarim, or elise I am calling bull****. Just did hecarim and olaf and came out ganking top with 500~ hp for an easy kill without a "lesh." I havent tried Elise yet cause I dont have her but you're full of ****.


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iSzathi

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Member

12-05-2012

Dnt really get the complains, so far my experience with the new jungle is the following. Same thing, but with dif items.

Machete+pots+def masters, clear then gank, Been even jungling with eve without having hp issues. Tankier dudes like Cho dont even get to half hp. Had to change my builds quite a bit, but im not really taking any damange jungling.

Early ganks still happen.


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Syzygian

Junior Member

12-05-2012

New Jungle = Old Jungle.

I don't understand why so many people are having issues with it. So the neutral monsters do more damage and the larger ones have more HP? Who cares? It's not really that much of a significant difference.

In fact, I prefer it. It means that counter jungling very early game is much less viable and means junglers just have to stick to their own jungles for a while.