Jungle Update Cons

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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endgame3810 View Post
Also, Nunu and Warwick are STILL the only ones that can jungle for lower level summoners, the jungle got MUCH worse that way. Much much much worse. No attack speed runes, hp, hp regen, armor masteries or runes, just ugly.
Which means the changes had no impact on low level jungling, which is half of the OP's post.


Also, you used "your" multiple times when you meant to type "you're".


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Endgame3810

Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Which means the changes had no impact on low level jungling, which is half of the OP's post.


Also, you used "your" multiple times when you meant to type "you're".
Ooh. Good cover for going off topic and having no ground to stand on for your arguement.

Also I was wrong. Udyr can do low level jungling too - and since Riot's INTENTION was to make jungling more accessible to more junglers I'd say Riot managed to fail both the OP and the rest of us.


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Zerosignal

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Junior Member

12-04-2012

I'm an avid jungler. It's mah main thang. Granted, I'm fairly new to the game, and don't have a ton of authority or knowledge in this game in general, but here's my opinion anyway, because, well... I have one.

Jungling is broken now. No early ganks is what made champs like Kha and Shy, FOR ME, viable. If I'm level 4 and mid is in trouble and needs a gank, too bad. I'm low health normally at this point, so I have to watch my mid fail, and just tell them too bad. That really, really bugs me, as I try my best to be a team player and I do my best to support whatever lane needs it... Well, early game, that's not an option. Every time I can't help is another death closer to surrender at 20, and there's nothing I can do about that. My clear times are fine, it's just not having the health left over to even TRY to gank. I have to go b a ton more now. I can't just build up for a BF sword as easily as before, especially without the gold from ganks. I fall behind often.

So now I'm forced into my other junglers who really rely on endgame. My safe junglers, like Amumu, Skarner, and Maokai... Go tanky and sustain. I can't do my damage junglers at all. And my clear times on them is so much lower now that I fall behind, especially since I can't gank for more gold.

The new items are fun, and make customization awesome, per match. I like that. I like it a lot. Don't worry about that, good stuff. However, I fall behind so much that jungling is not worth even playing anymore, and it was my personal favorite role.

Now I'm just going to support every game, because at least I can succeed in doing my role accurately, and as a player with not much skill, in general, because I'm so new at this... It's about all I have left. I think you need to fix jungle so I don't fall behind so much. I don't like falling behind, and wasn't that what you were trying to fix?


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BTWFDRhadpolio

Senior Member

12-04-2012

The thing is, laners are still adjusting to the fact that they can't rely on early ganks. Once this becomes the custom, you won't see the need to help laners so early on AS MUCH. It's not just the junglers that need adjusting to the new jungle, it's everyone.


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ThelAswad

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Alright, to the folks saying it's great that junglers can't gank early (or at all, in many cases), answer me this:

If a jungler 'deciding a lane' makes LoL a worse game, how effective is a role that removes itself from the equation entirely?

So, instead of a top lane partner, you have nobody. That's what junglers do right now. Nothing, and moreover, they 'decide' the top lane by their absence against two-top. At the end of the day, you need to look at the trade-offs effective junglers made in season 2; they used smite instead of a 'real' summoner spell, they stacked many runes that were objectively worse against champions than laners, and many had to buy god-awful equipment to actually make it through the jungle in decent enough shape to gank. And then, they had to have Oracles, because everyone and their pet monkey knows how to place a ward for the first 20 minutes of the game. Why do all that, when you could just be a laner, and get your gold, have decent masteries and runes, and be good, as opposed to awful.

Why even bother jungling now? It takes so much health for junglers without sustain capabilities, and they've lost every tool they could use to keep themselves out of trouble. Why even have 'jungler' on Elise's description? What does Hecarim do now, since he can't plow through a jungle properly, even with masteries and runes? Shouldn't I just play something top lane?

Also, isn't this "PvP"? Why am I plowing through a jungle full of monsters, and rarely interacting with my teammates?


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BTWFDRhadpolio

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelAswad View Post

Also, isn't this "PvP"? Why am I plowing through a jungle full of monsters, and rarely interacting with my teammates?
If this is how you jungle, you're doing it wrong.


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ThelAswad

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTWFDRhadpolio View Post
If this is how you jungle, you're doing it wrong.
Have you played a non-sustain jungler since the patch? Try Hecarim. It's pretty hard to charge in at half health and hope you don't get smacked, feeding the opposing lane a kill and a buff or two.

Unless you want to feed, you will interact 'rarely'. Or play a sustain jungler, I guess.


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PoisonedPeace

Senior Member

12-04-2012

You guys don't understand..
Riot made the jungle different with intent to change the game.

Single target (no AoE) and sustain with limited ganking power are so much more viable.

You guys want to be able to faceroll the jungle with a minion. Now jungle just has less of an impact on the game. You have to be smarter, which is why none of you like it.

You can't just pick Lee Sin and gank lanes all game. It makes lanes more competitive.


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ThelAswad

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonedPeace View Post
You guys don't understand..
Riot made the jungle different with intent to change the game.

Single target (no AoE) and sustain with limited ganking power are so much more viable.

You guys want to be able to faceroll the jungle with a minion. Now jungle just has less of an impact on the game. You have to be smarter, which is why none of you like it.

You can't just pick Lee Sin and gank lanes all game. It makes lanes more competitive.
While sustain junglers got a big leg up, many others got pushed into obsolescence. Now there are a handful of junglers, where before, there were many to choose from.

It isn't that it's 'hard'. It's that there is no decision that you can make that will make some characters viable junglers any more. I can't stack more Armor seals, I already do that. I can't fix my masteries, I've already taken all the damage prevention from minions.

I don't own Lee Sin. I don't own Warwick. I've jungled with Olaf, Hecarim, and Elise. At least two out of those three are just not viable anymore. My decisions are limited to a) clear a jungle, have 1/3 to 1/2 health, don't bother ganking because I'll just be feeding gold and buffs to my opponents, b) clear half a jungle and hope I land the gank, because if I don't, I'll be underleveled and undergeared.

Is that clear? Or is are my two 'awful' options the only alternative to 'facerolling', and thus justified?


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PoisonedPeace

Senior Member

12-04-2012

The whole point is so that you farm jungle longer.
What don't you get about that.
Riot wanted laners to decide who wins lanes. Not junglers.
You're just raging because you cant auto kill with hec coming out of whatever bush.
You have to make decisions now.. You have to decide whether or not the lane is being aggressive enough for you to gank or if you have enough health.

You have to make actual smart decisions and that is the only thing that is more difficult.
You can't handle anything more than the easy jungle of season 2 because it had room for error. Now it doesn't. Just be a smarter player.