Jungle Update Cons

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Mattizrawr

Junior Member

12-04-2012

The jungle system in the new patch has made the jungle nearly impossible to play at low levels, this is teaching our community that the jungle is too difficult and no longer good to play in. I believe the jungle was just fine before, just because some players complained on the jungle due to early game ganking, doesnt mean the jungle is too easy. Obviously, careless mistakes, such as pushing too far early game which allows ganks to occur, caused players to complain about the jungle being "too easy" as i've heard. Think of all your players, not just the 30s with all masteries.

Thank you for your time and post here for logical reasons on the jungle.


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HalcyonicHS

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Agreed. Jungling with no runes or masteries is nothing but painful.

And besides, new players would rarely see the benefit in it anyway, as it's just PvE all the way - and you don't even get enough farm out of it. You only break even, and that's if you do regular clears of double golems. Since there's no banking system, you lose and risk too much to go out and gank, and pure jungling? Where's the fun in that?

I am pretty damn sure jungling is going to be so popular among the new players. Ahem.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-04-2012

1) The jungle wasn't changed because people were complaining about it. In fact, I don't think anyone was complaining about it. I certainly don't remember hearing any major grumblings. It was changed because Riot didn't like how matches were going with the current jungle and they wanted to make more junglers more viable.

2) The jungle was already hard to impossible to clear without runes and masteries. This isn't something that was easy pre-patch and is now all of the sudden difficult.


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Lolita Margarita

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Jungling was always been extremely difficult to be effective at low levels because runes and masteries were what made it even remotely viable. In fact, I don't really know much of anybody who attempted to jungle semi-frequently until they were at least at level 20 to purchase their greater runes. Most players are fine dual-laning until they reach a level of play where jungling actually becomes possible. There's only such a small pool of champions that could actually jungle pre-20 because otherwise they simply don't have the sustain or clear times, or that they need a hard leash at lower levels to work.

Early-game jungling was pretty powerful, but farming jungling creeps did sort of fall off a bit late game. I can understand the adjustments they're making, but you're jumping ship far too early.


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Mattizrawr

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
1) they wanted to make more junglers more viable.

2) The jungle was already hard to impossible to clear without runes and masteries. This isn't something that was easy pre-patch and is now all of the sudden difficult.
first off, they ruined most junglers because the only successful junglers now are sustain junglers.

Secondly, the jungle in S2 was easy at 30, and easily attainable at low lvl.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Do you not realize how more champions are now more viable?

Sustain junglers will have more health to gank, but they don't have the ganking power of gank junglers.
Gank junglers still have the gank-ability, but if they want to do so, they'll have to risk doing so with less health.

What this means is that a champion like Warwick, who previously was completely unviable in the jungle only due to his terrible ganking power now becomes more viable because a champion like Lee Sin has lost some ganking power.

They're both viable because their both able to clear the jungle and be at least some threat in ganks. Before the changes, Warwick wasn't viable because despite having great sustain, he'd clear the jungle with the same health as Lee Sin, who is also a great ganker. The power of Lee Sin's ganks, coupled with the fact that sustain meant practically nothing, meant that strength of Lee Sin to gank made Warwick a terrible choice as a jungler.


Before the patch and the changes to the jungle, Warwick and Nunu are the only two champions I know of that a low level summoner could clear the jungle with. And mind you, this is clear the jungle. This doesn't mean competently fill the jungle role. They were only clearing the jungle, and not having much of an impact on lanes. If there's a champion you know of that could clear season 2 jungle without masteries/runes, why don't you clue me in? But anyway, with that said, I'd imagine that Nunu and Warwick are both still able to clear the jungle without runes or masteries.


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Endgame3810

Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Do you not realize how more champions are now more viable?

Sustain junglers will have more health to gank, but they don't have the ganking power of gank junglers.
Gank junglers still have the gank-ability, but if they want to do so, they'll have to risk doing so with less health.

What this means is that a champion like Warwick, who previously was completely unviable in the jungle only due to his terrible ganking power now becomes more viable because a champion like Lee Sin has lost some ganking power.

They're both viable because their both able to clear the jungle and be at least some threat in ganks. Before the changes, Warwick wasn't viable because despite having great sustain, he'd clear the jungle with the same health as Lee Sin, who is also a great ganker. The power of Lee Sin's ganks, coupled with the fact that sustain meant practically nothing, meant that strength of Lee Sin to gank made Warwick a terrible choice as a jungler.


Before the patch and the changes to the jungle, Warwick and Nunu are the only two champions I know of that a low level summoner could clear the jungle with. And mind you, this is clear the jungle. This doesn't mean competently fill the jungle role. They were only clearing the jungle, and not having much of an impact on lanes. If there's a champion you know of that could clear season 2 jungle without masteries/runes, why don't you clue me in? But anyway, with that said, I'd imagine that Nunu and Warwick are both still able to clear the jungle without runes or masteries.
Please stop posting this same line of thinking in every jungle thread, your wrong. The reason your wrong is that early game skillsets (esp. with blue buff) which include shields do far more to improve sustain than actually life steal a la warwick etc. What this means is Skarner and Lee Sin and company are still much much much better junglers than WW since they can actually make a difference in the early game instead of waiting till 6 to do jack all.

Also, Nunu and Warwick are STILL the only ones that can jungle for lower level summoners, the jungle got MUCH worse that way. Much much much worse. No attack speed runes, hp, hp regen, armor masteries or runes, just ugly.


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Mattizrawr

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endgame3810 View Post
Please stop posting this same line of thinking in every jungle thread, your wrong. The reason your wrong is that early game skillsets (esp. with blue buff) which include shields do far more to improve sustain than actually life steal a la warwick etc. What this means is Skarner and Lee Sin and company are still much much much better junglers than WW since they can actually make a difference in the early game instead of waiting till 6 to do jack all.

Also, Nunu and Warwick are STILL the only ones that can jungle for lower level summoners, the jungle got MUCH worse that way. Much much much worse. No attack speed runes, hp, hp regen, armor masteries or runes, just ugly.
^This


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MGS Mantis

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Senior Member

12-04-2012

I have zero difficulty jungling before with multiple champions. I feel like I'm playing a new game now. Everything's too different. Not a fan of this patch.


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Friesguy

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGS Mantis View Post
I have zero difficulty jungling before with multiple champions. I feel like I'm playing a new game now. Everything's too different. Not a fan of this patch.
That's the thing, jungling was so easy that nearly any champ could do it. While that's amazing at our low levels, Riot is looking at the higher level play. The pros only use junglers who can do their job with little gold and can gank hard early to help snowball lanes. Riot didn't like that junglers were deciding which lanes won regardless of the skill of the laners, so now they've made jungling tougher for junglers that needed to gank.

You're not going to see much Alistar jungle now because he needed to gank to keep his gold up, but since he'll be at low health if he decides to clear two camps, he can't gank as much early game anymore, which makes the laners' skills be the deciding factor.

tl;dr Riot doesn't like lanes being decided by early ganks, but by the laner's skill.