S3 Jungle Gold Starvation Still Exists

First Riot Post
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Dactylogram

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
I'd like to wait a bit before jumping to any conclusions just yet.
BUMP. OK Statikk it's been 3 weeks. Now don't give us any "I'd like to wait ..." Actually address this problem. Thanks in advance.


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IrrationalNoob

Senior Member

12-27-2012

The only junglers to play are aggresive jungles atm.

The oppurtunistic gank scenarios that both of you brought up are SO IMPORTANT for the lanes and for the jungles.

The jungle NEEDS to put out pressure because of the reduced early game rewards.

I see more Shaco and Lee jungles then ever before because of the increased importance of early and mid game pressure.

This patch has absolutely not done what you said it would. Although I suppose the gp5 jungle farmers were nerfed......but this in combination with the early game gold reduction has only served to make jungle performance VERY BINARY based on how successful the first couple of ganks go.

I don't really see the passive farm it up scenario being very productive for the team at all....


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

12-27-2012

So Riot, it's been a month, and there's no sign of any changes coming in the next patch, how long are we going to have to wait? 2 months? 6 months? I have not met a single person who likes these changes.


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Dactylogram

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post

I think something that wasn't vocalized enough is that the early jungle is actually nerfed. Hopefully we can accept that the swing in the early game that the jungler provided in S2 was a little much, and it added an overabundance of responsibility on a single player.
I'm ok with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
From there, the question becomes, why would I want to play a jungler now? how do I keep up with solo laners?
Good question ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I don't think circling the jungle for 25 minutes not ganking and coming out ahead is good for the game, and it's also not something that is heavily incentivised. Jungle minions, like lane minions, and like all farm on the map are a shared resource for everyone on the team to divide.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post

These changes are aimed at making the jungler an equal contributor to the outcome of the game. One of the problems we run into though, is that the jungle is the most dynamic and therefore variant position on the team. I've been in multiple games in the past day or two where I have CARRIED HARD out of the jungle. I do my clear, land an opportunistic gank at level 4-5, push the lane from there, and just hold my advantage throughout the match.
This is definitely possible, but unreliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
But it is also easily understandable, that you if you do a jungle clear, fail 4-5 ganks in a row, press too hard, fail an invade, die, lose buffs, and get counter-jungled, you're gonna feel terrible. I can almost guarantee that in that scenario you will probably be even further behind than if it happened in season 2.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
One thing I would caution towards when thinking about these changes, is the potential for adaptation. I don't think the current play of the jungle is at all optimal. Perhaps now that mid lane champs have better mana itemization (tear buff), the jungler can have access to 2nd blue buff.
Mid laners still want 2nd+ blue buff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Maybe now that wraiths are more difficult for mid to take, it's more optimal to differ that farm to the jungler at all times.
As far as I can tell mid laners take this more often now. The re-positioning of the wraiths to make people "commit" did virtually nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Maybe now that double golums are worth proportionally more gold, junglers will spend more time killing them and be rewarded for it.
I seriously doubt they are worth more gold. I will check again, but double golem feels like a waste of time currently, for the same reason that it felt like a waste in season 2. Too difficult for the gold it gives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Maybe now that the jungle takes longer to kill, players will spend less time camping lanes, and more time planning efficient gank routes.
Yeah see, this was the idea behind most of the changes. It's a good idea. Very noble indeed. Except, this dream didn't see the light of day. Junglers now are in a worse off position because everyone is trying to play it like season 2 (gank all day) but is forced to stay in the jungle and spend more time clearing the camps. We have a situation where it is harder to keep up in CS and gank the same amount. Junglers are going to want to gank as much as they did in season 2 because that is the best thing for junglers to do. Let me be very clear: Junglers cannot afford to simply farm and camp clear because it does not provide them with enough income. The current state calls for junglers to gank a lot; they are slower in ganking because the season 3 jungle requires more time to clear. Oh and also, if a player didn't plan an efficient gank route to begin with, the gank was probably going to fail anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
I'm not saying we have it solved. We probably haven't, we probably have to tweak things. Just make sure to keep an open mind when trying this stuff, and remember how long it took to reach the level of understanding we all had of the S2 jungle. This patch has been out for 2 days, alot of OP stuff is probably still hidden within the new jungle.
Well, the patch has now been out much longer. I don't see any hidden OP stuff. I understand that the community will not have as great of an understanding of the S2 jungle immediately. Instead, I'm trying to be very vocal by saying that junglers feel extremely weak. In season 1 we had variety. In season 2 it was play an AoE clearing tank, build 2x GP 10, gank all day. In season 3 its this: try to gank all day, but clear camps because that's your only reliable gold. Don't build GP10 because that means your camp clear speed decreases (the jungle items that provide % increase on minions will be delayed). The state of the jungle is frustrating. It feels like a weak role, and I rarely see people want to play it. I'm a jungle main so I play it a lot, but in general, it's not very popular.

Also please refer to this: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2922853


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Gløry

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Have we "gotten used to it" yet enough to buff gold income? thx


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-27-2012

this thread still exists 0_0


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Yusuf Almunadem

Senior Member

12-27-2012

bump


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Dactylogram

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glry View Post
Have we "gotten used to it" yet enough to buff gold income? thx
Hmm good question I wonder what Riot's response will--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
The jungle is a known issue. The live design team is working on it right now. We expect to have the problem released Soon TM.
Right. It will be a meaningless lie that doesn't address the problem.


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Drediviros

Senior Member

12-27-2012

bump for Riot response, the new jungle isn't horrible per say but is still far from what was promised. For the increased difficulty of creep camps and loss of early game power we were promised more gold for late game but in most realistic scenarios you end up with around same amount of gold.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Statikk I can fix all your problems, Switch Golems and Wraith camp location. . .

That will fix ALL the problems you mentioned in your first post.