S3 Jungle Gold Starvation Still Exists

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Poofums

Member

12-05-2012

Am I the only one who likes the new jungle...? No really, playing with a team that didn't pick apart my jungle and I spent a majority of the time just cleaning minions, I was easily able to keep up with lanes. Let's also not forget that the changes effect different champs in different ways. People keep bringing up this whole, it was tested that Season 2 and Season 3 jungle was farmed for a large duration and Season 2 jungle came on top, but there's so many more factors then just that. Nautilus is ridiculiously hard to jungle with now where I feel things that should've never been able to jungle now stand a chance for example.

People are still stuck in a Season 2 meta were everyone knows whats a good laner, knows whats a good jungler and knows what items to get, and that simply just isn't true anymore without enough practice being put in. It's doing a lot better for me and all Riot REALLY wants is enough time to see if some group, streamer or team finds a way to take advantage of these changes in a new and unique way that catches on (because you know... everything sucks until someone streams it or they saw it in a tournament) and if it still shows that the new jungle just isn't working with new strategies, so be it. The entire community is kind of jumping the gun.


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Tofubots

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
Lane gold went down a tick.
jungle gold is nearly the same.
=> Jungler didn't got nerfed as hard as the lanes.
The +3g/10 extra for every champs means that jungle got buffed a tiny bit and lane is nearly the same.
After 11 minutes, jungle starts to get more gold and XP (where they dropped off very hard).

The second effect is that jungling is harder. Machete and the other items make it possible for the jungler.
The main problem in the jungle was not the low amount of gold, but that the lanes took the jungler after a short amount of time. Mid laners started pre 6 with it. ADC + support often started at lvl 1. And some champs took the blue buff while the jungler took red the red side.
Riot wanted to give the jungle back to the junglers away from the lanes.

Now the mid lane gets less wraith camps. Top takes less golems/wolves and the ADC also takes less.
That automaticly leaved the jungle open for the jungler again.

The problem was that a farming jungler was ok, but giving the gold to the lanes while the jungler took 2 g/10 items and only supported was the better way to play.

In a normal game i get around 15-30% more gold if i farm my jungle. Before i didn't get a chance to farm after the first clear. perma ganking + g/10 was the way to go.
Now i can decide what to do. It opens new ways (or opens up old ways again).
Lane gold actually went up as long as you don't miss the siege minion.
The jungle camps are not so difficult after the 15 minute mark so mid can still take your wraiths without much punishment to their hp. The exp from jungle still seems really lacking. Junglers end up falling behind support sometimes. It seems like junglers got even weaker.

With a machete as well. You are spending money on an item that is essentially useless versus enemy champs. I do not recommend upgrading it to the final stone items because it's a huge waste of your gold. Maybe people should just sell it after mid game for a better item.


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Vervamon

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Member

12-05-2012

New jungle bad.
Riot pls


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poofums View Post
Am I the only one who likes the new jungle...? No really, playing with a team that didn't pick apart my jungle and I spent a majority of the time just cleaning minions, I was easily able to keep up with lanes. Let's also not forget that the changes effect different champs in different ways. People keep bringing up this whole, it was tested that Season 2 and Season 3 jungle was farmed for a large duration and Season 2 jungle came on top, but there's so many more factors then just that. Nautilus is ridiculiously hard to jungle with now where I feel things that should've never been able to jungle now stand a chance for example.

People are still stuck in a Season 2 meta were everyone knows whats a good laner, knows whats a good jungler and knows what items to get, and that simply just isn't true anymore without enough practice being put in. It's doing a lot better for me and all Riot REALLY wants is enough time to see if some group, streamer or team finds a way to take advantage of these changes in a new and unique way that catches on (because you know... everything sucks until someone streams it or they saw it in a tournament) and if it still shows that the new jungle just isn't working with new strategies, so be it. The entire community is kind of jumping the gun.
go watch stonewalls videos, although he isnt the best it gives clear a example that your gold and exp go down from last season with any jungler


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Tribunal Justice

Senior Member

12-05-2012

There's a lot of conflicting messages. One thing is for sure math is math. Riot said one thing and did another. Kinda weird but natural of riot to do again.


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribunal Justice View Post
There's a lot of conflicting messages. One thing is for sure math is math. Riot said one thing and did another. Kinda weird but natural of riot to do again.
we've been telling them on pbe server since release

but nooooooo


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Karilis

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post


My point is the way we are used to playing the game tends to push junglers towards being poor and feeling like a "support."
I feel more support as a jungler than ever...
The loss of lifesteal made my trundle useless...
He was my favorite characters....
I feel like quitting this game now.

Or I feel like going top lane and playing as a support, since that's the jungler's
new job...


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

statikk just leaves the thread lol


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Xyltin

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayleorfeed View Post
1. laners get more gold
2. junglers get less
3. 11 minutes is where the gold is the same with small differences
4. laners still take buffs/camps
5. you cant gank and farm, you pick one
1. Laners get 9 less gold per wave if they last hit perfectly. They get +9 gold from teh increased g/10. So they stay equal. The difference they get is the canon minion every 1.5 minutes. That is around 4-5 gold every 30 sec.
2. junglers get a bit less gold in the first 2 clears, but the extra g/10 makes up for that in the first clear and increases the gold in the second one.

http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a...season-3-goals

Read through this article for the maths on lane and jungle gold. For both you get a nice table without the g/10 added.

3.
At 13:30 lanes get around 200 less gold through farming but the same amount through the extra g/10. That means at that time they are equal.

Junglers get equal at around 11:00 already without the extra g/10.


4. lanes take buffs (like always), but taking camps needs more time for them. The amount gets reduced. Before, a good AP mid champ started at around 3-4 minutes into the game. The ADC started as early as possible.
Now the ADC starts around 8-12 minutes into the game.
The AP champ does the same.
If you are good that leaves you at least 4 more wraith camps with at least 200 gold for you.

5. you can do both. What did you do in S2? you did gank all the time. there was no way to farm. You took g/10 and you got yout gold like the supporter with the small bonus of some camps. Now you can decide what to do.
S2 jungle was the worst thing ever in this game.
S1 jungle had the problem that jungle was hard but the spawn times were so high that you cleared and then ganked in the time between. It was a pattern and no real desicion.
They wanted to fix that, but the g/10 and lanes farming the jungler permanently was a problem in the end.
=> Harder jungle like in S1, but with faster spawn times so that you have to choose what to do. And still HP and mana gain from camps to make the jungler more open and the junglers less blue reliant (variety).


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Poofums

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayleorfeed View Post
go watch stonewalls videos, although he isnt the best it gives clear a example that your gold and exp go down from last season with any jungler
I've watched all of his videos for Season 3 jungle... and pretty much discredited him because of him admitting he was using traditional runes/masteries and didn't switch it up much... along with him actually putting a point into Meditate with Master Yi when level 3, making me think he probably hardly knows what he's doing.