[Long Discussion] Is Riot Using Player Money to Run a Sweatshop in The Philippines?

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PallasAthens

Senior Member

12-06-2012

This topic is stupid.

In alot of countries where they work in factories, aka 'sweatshops', here is some options the local populace has:

Work for the local drug lord. Get shot if you mess something up.
Work in a sweatshop, get better pay than working in a local job.

This is the truth in many of these countries. To you or me, a dollar a day doesn't sound alot. But in these countries, this is far more than what they may make from any other local work.


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horror5how

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Classic ecological fallacy in this thread. Wal-Mart employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and doesn't pay any of them a living wage. Is it right then to characterize the United States as a sweatshop country in which every major company should be suspected of operating under similar conditions?

(Rhetoric answer: no).

Therefore, until you can come up with some specific proof that Riot is operating a sweatshop in the Philippines, then your argument is nothing more than conjecture. It is still an interesting point though to wonder why Riot would be motivated to outsource to the Philippines rather than stay domestic, or even go with the more seemingly obvious India. Seriously though, isn't the entire USA now a service economy? They're saying in the freest free-market in the world that they couldn't find a reasonably priced call center?

Riot, pls.


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Eserine

Senior Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiddenkho View Post
Hey! guys. Stop being dumbasses! As long as they are doing their job well, I don't think that there's a problem about that.
and would you have any problem eating stolen and murdered human babies as long as they tasted good, had a high nutritional content, and carried no diseases?

"As long as they are doing their job well [as food], I don't think that there's a problem about that"

Quote:
Originally Posted by PallasAthens View Post
This topic is stupid.

In alot of countries where they work in factories, aka 'sweatshops', here is some options the local populace has:

Work for the local drug lord. Get shot if you mess something up.
Work in a sweatshop, get better pay than working in a local job.

This is the truth in many of these countries. To you or me, a dollar a day doesn't sound alot. But in these countries, this is far more than what they may make from any other local work.
and why would Riot have to follow this pattern after deciding to enter the Philippine labor market again? Multi-million dollar companies are not forced to participate in the systematic exploitation of human life, they are brought to it by their own greed, or as Lomar may like to put it: "special future projects".

Quote:
Originally Posted by horror5how View Post
Classic ecological fallacy in this thread. Wal-Mart employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and doesn't pay any of them a living wage. Is it right then to characterize the United States as a sweatshop country in which every major company should be suspected of operating under similar conditions?

(Rhetoric answer: no).

Therefore, until you can come up with some specific proof that Riot is operating a sweatshop in the Philippines, then your argument is nothing more than conjecture. It is still an interesting point though to wonder why Riot would be motivated to outsource to the Philippines rather than stay domestic, or even go with the more seemingly obvious India. Seriously though, isn't the entire USA now a service economy? They're saying in the freest free-market in the world that they couldn't find a reasonably priced call center?

Riot, pls.
That is truly a terrible analogy to draw in regards to your position, critics of modern corporations point to Walmart constantly in discussions of how first-world labor abuses are allowed to arise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...abor_relations

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/...ttestimony.pdf

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/...nancial-advice

(Rhetoric answer: Yes)

Not to bring the point to overkill, but world-renown speakers and activists like Howard Zinn, Lawrence Lessig, and Noam Chomsky have built their entire life-long activism efforts (right or wrong) around the idea of systemic corruption you have just dismissed out-of-hand. It constitutes an entire GENRE of thousands of books, articles, sociological studies, and lectures, not just of Walmart, but of all modern employment practices, in work after work like this one every year:

http://www.amazon.com/Corpocracy-Bus.../dp/0470145099

also spilling into modern criticism of academia and the use of doctorate and postdoctorate students (in their unprecedented abundance) as unpaid, overworked, and disposable researchers or educators in universities.

In other words, while accusing me of committing a classic ecological fallacy you have created a argumentum ad populum, reasoning that no one characterizes the United States as a sweatshop country because you and others you know do not.

However, my concerns in this thread (as you might see if you read the links I embedded) go FAR beyond "not getting paid a living wage". I'm thinking more along the lines of recent world news headlines involving 8-year old children enslaved in India and forced to make North American Christmas ornaments for 19 hours a day, or clothing manufacturers in Ashulia locked by metal gates into a burning building and told to go back to work [for Walmart], these instances don't really resemble your seemingly limited vision of what a sweatshop is at all- but like you, I do remain curious why Riot wouldn't go further in avoidance of even your "mildly terrible" model of sweatshop employment frameworks. The possibility of a Riot sweatshop remains a conjecture (and I do not shirk the burden of proof), but it remains a very worrying and sadly plausible conjecture.


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Eserine

Senior Member

12-28-2012

I found this story to be a worrying bit of foreshadowing today:

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/le...202400773.html


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x1 Godja

Member

12-28-2012

i juST LOVE HOW MANY PEOPLE DIDNT EVEN READ THE WHOLE THING AND TRY TO WHITE KNIGHT RIOT, RIOT ARE SCUMBAGS DIRTY FILTHY GREEDY FCKERS


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Vamp13

Member

12-28-2012

who the **** cares, i hope all jobs get outsourced to asia so america takes away the retarded labor laws they have that prevent me from working an 8 hr shift without a lunch break because some ******bag a long time ago was lazy and felt he needed an hour break lenghtening my work day to 9 hrs from a previous 8 hrs.


seriously. labor laws need to die.


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ThisTimeForREALS

Senior Member

12-28-2012

This thread comes off as really holier than thou with its fearmongering and condescending tone. No proof, but an expectation of people to freak out just in case. Yeah, like I'm going to do that.

Come back when you have something worth my time.


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Eserine

Senior Member

12-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vamp13 View Post
who the **** cares, i hope all jobs get outsourced to asia so america takes away the retarded labor laws they have that prevent me from working an 8 hr shift without a lunch break because some ******bag a long time ago was lazy and felt he needed an hour break lenghtening my work day to 9 hrs from a previous 8 hrs.


seriously. labor laws need to die.

Be careful what you wish for Vamp13, without any labor guidelines dictating schedule procedure and a terrible job market you might easily find yourself in a Japanese-style work environment one day:

Toyota’s manufacturing processes came under scrutiny in 2002 after one Kenichi Uchino collapsed and died on the Tokyo factory’s floor in his fourth hour of “voluntary overtime.” In his last month there, he’d worked 106 hours of overtime, largely unpaid — a standard practice in Japan, where employees are judged on their loyalty and dedication. The term “karoshi” (death from overwork) describes just such a situation, as a court ruled in favor of Uchino’s widow five years later. Toyota has since limited overtime to 360 hours a year, though the workers respond by sticking around with the lights off.

"Only the laziest workers stop to 'eat food', and these disloyal freeloaders should be the let go as soon as possible in favor of those who understand the true value of productivity!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisTimeForREALS View Post
This thread comes off as really holier than thou with its fearmongering and condescending tone. No proof, but an expectation of people to freak out just in case. Yeah, like I'm going to do that.

Come back when you have something worth my time.
Holier than thou? How is it that I am being condescending by asking readers to consider this issue for themselves? The conclusion I have have drawn (if you check the TL;DR at the beginning) is that Riot has offered no evidence that they actually have checks in place to PREVENT this sort of travesty from happening, and my proof of this (as a player following the DevTracker day-to-day since it began) is that they have never talked about their contractor protections ANYWHERE. Do we need to fly to California and hide under their desks to collect more evidence? That isn't necessary, Lomar's presence on the outsourcing team would seem to point to his expertise in ensuring that Riot has plausible deniability if controversy erupts over their activities, and beyond simply outsourcing player support the team could likewise eventually double-subcontract their animation teams or art teams to 3rd world countries with human rights violations as well, as was reported at length within the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Pyongyang-Jour.../dp/1897299214

How could I suggest that this is a possible outcome for Riot's future? Because many modern companies have already done this in countless industries without any regard for human life or well-being and completely gotten away with it.

If you would like more details on this subject in regards to Riot, so would I. I wrote a support ticket on Christmas Eve hoping that it would go through to The Philippines asking which contracting companies Riot uses there, but unfortunately that question was not on any support script, so I am still left waiting for a response (which will probably be a vague dismissal forwarded from the legal department)! I will update this thread once more if my query is ever addressed, check back into this thread after a month or so.


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VincentDw

Senior Member

12-28-2012

gg wp riot


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the beast 53

Junior Member

12-28-2012

This needs to be red, i just want to see the response. well dug article, and I hope riot has a good explination. I do like the company, but some times i really do wonder if they are just selling out. dont mean to step on toes here, but if a red could respond, it would be lovely.