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Hecarim Q needs a slight change

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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
MedievalMan:
I agree with Darklarik, his Q needs to do 100% damage to at least jungle monsters because he got crippled as a jungler in S3. He takes heavy damage from camps and doesn't clear fast enough at lvl 1 to save his ass without heavy damage from his team.
Hecarim is my main so these changes hurt. :/

And god forbid he get invaded.


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Aqualisk

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Hecarim is fine. Everyone clears a little slower and at slightly more risk now. This is actually a net buff to Hecarim since he generally didn't gank until level 3 or 4 anyway and now the enemy jungler can't be as aggressive either.

Couple this with new item changes (Iceborn Gauntlet, Black Cleaver, Spirit Visage, and Spiritstone) and he's in a great spot now. Don't forget they buffed his early jungle too.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Aqualisk:
Hecarim is fine. Everyone clears a little slower and at slightly more risk now. This is actually a net buff to Hecarim since he generally didn't gank until level 3 or 4 anyway and now the enemy jungler can't be as aggressive either.

Couple this with new item changes (Iceborn Gauntlet, Black Cleaver, Spirit Visage, and Spiritstone) and he's in a great spot now. Don't forget they buffed his early jungle too.

Oh please do elaborate how. They gave him 3 more points of ad. Thats it. They nerfed his base mov speed, AND made it so you cant start boots, HUGE damage nerf to his passive.

Aoe also deals less damage now, so his Q, along with its neutral minion damage reduction, is dealing barely any damage.

Combine this with the camps dealing more damage, having more health, and being unleashable, and hes in a **** spot right now.

So PLEASE, enlighten me on HOW he got a buff!?


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Aqualisk

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Darklarik:
Oh please do elaborate how. They gave him 3 more points of ad. Thats it. They nerfed his base mov speed, AND made it so you cant start boots, HUGE damage nerf to his passive.

Aoe also deals less damage now, so his Q, along with its neutral minion damage reduction, is dealing barely any damage.

Combine this with the camps dealing more damage, having more health, and being unleashable, and hes in a **** spot right now.

So PLEASE, enlighten me on HOW he got a buff!?


He gained 25 base movement speed like everyone else did. Hecarim is better now comparatively because his clear isn't much different than it was before. For most junglers though they are not as healthy and putting pressure on your lanes is difficult prior to level 4. That's good for Hecarim because he generally was not a strong ganker prior to level 3 or level 4 preferably. So with everyone else slightly slower and Hecarim basically the same: It's a buff.


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nispoH likes men

Junior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Aqualisk:
He gained 25 base movement speed like everyone else did. Hecarim is better now comparatively because his clear isn't much different than it was before. For most junglers though they are not as healthy and putting pressure on your lanes is difficult prior to level 4. That's good for Hecarim because he generally was not a strong ganker prior to level 3 or level 4 preferably. So with everyone else slightly slower and Hecarim basically the same: It's a buff.


This 25 base ms does not proc with his passive, if im not mistaken his passive only works with extra ms. So again explain your reasoning.


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Aqualisk

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
nispoH likes men:
This 25 base ms does not proc with his passive, if im not mistaken his passive only works with extra ms. So again explain your reasoning.


So a slight loss of MS. Again the rest of my post stands. I play him all the time and I think he's just fine. Please read the rest of my post. His relative power vs aggressive junglers has gone up and that's nothing but a positive for Hecarim.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Clear #1 sucks for everybody.

Hecarim gets so much faster with spirit stone/Lizard elder that it's not really funny - The % damage increase from Machete/Stone/Spirit applies to every one of his skills, and both Q and W proc the burn from Elder.

So there is that.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Aqualisk:
He gained 25 base movement speed like everyone else did. Hecarim is better now comparatively because his clear isn't much different than it was before. For most junglers though they are not as healthy and putting pressure on your lanes is difficult prior to level 4. That's good for Hecarim because he generally was not a strong ganker prior to level 3 or level 4 preferably. So with everyone else slightly slower and Hecarim basically the same: It's a buff.

Dude, the base mov speed buff isnt a buff to hecarim, its a change to everyone, and he suffer negatively from it because of his passive.

His first clear got worse IMO, and his subsequent ones arent all that better either with the AOE nerf to the jungle. Hes extremely easy to invade now, and he also got indirectly nerfed becuase of the nerf to armor pen runes. His damage took a huge nerf from the changes to runes, movement, and his jungle got much harder and more dangerous than before.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

12-07-2012

the aoe "nerf" isn't a nerf at all ~10 minutes in (less if you're fed)

unless you hate machete and are therefore bad.

I have encountered no problems with it both on the PBE and on live. In fact, with the new items I'm having an easier time swinging games as the horse.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Voidgolem:
Hecarim gets so much faster with spirit stone/Lizard elder that it's not really funny - The % damage increase from Machete/Stone/Spirit applies to every one of his skills, and both Q and W proc the burn from Elder.

I think that you mean Q and E proc the burn. Which they do. W is a DoT, so it doesn't.

Quote:
Darklarik:
They nerfed his base mov speed, AND made it so you cant start boots, HUGE damage nerf to his passive.

FYI everyone, when I was testing Hecarim on the PBE a week ago, the passive was still calculating as if his MS was 320. Go load a test game with Hecarim but without any runes or masteries. Don't buy any items. Look at the tooltip on his passive and find out if it calculates as 320 base or 345 base.
That said, the passive gives a tiny bit of AD, which gives a tiny fraction to his Q. Removing the 33% penalty to jungle would be a great idea.


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