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Hecarim Q needs a slight change

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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Q- Rampage: Hecarim cleaves nearby enemies, dealing damage. This skill deals only 66% damage to minions and neutral monsters.

This. remove it.


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Tabaeris

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Pretty sure this has been standard on hecarim ever since his release.

If you're looking purely for faster clear times in the jungle you should be maxing W, maxing Q has always been primarily for ganking


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Tabaeris:
Pretty sure this has been standard on hecarim ever since his release.

If you're looking purely for faster clear times in the jungle you should be maxing W, maxing Q has always been primarily for ganking

w? W???!

wtf dude, it dosent deal no where near the consistency of damage that his Q does and its on a huge Cd.

Im not talking about standard, im talking about a slight change to help his Jungle after the indirect nerf to his passive do to the base mov speed changes and boots


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Waschbar

Senior Member

12-04-2012

W clears far faster than Q. Fact. The level of base damage gets pretty high at higher levels of it.
And if that Q was 100% to neutral monsters we'd have a horse DESTROYING clear times.
Also the base movement speed changes are actually a buff to runes and masteries giving more MS over all.


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Taiyodori

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Nickwright:
W clears far faster than Q. Fact. The level of base damage gets pretty high at higher levels of it.
And if that Q was 100% to neutral monsters we'd have a horse DESTROYING clear times.
Also the base movement speed changes are actually a buff to runes and masteries giving more MS over all.


This is assuming either using Q only a single time on each camp or using W more than once.

W Dmg: 80-260 max (+.8 AP, but you usually don't get any, at least not within the first 10 minutes) with 14 sec CD. (= 1 Use / Camp)

Q Dmg (to monsters): 33 - 126 (+.4 Bonus-AD, which you usually get, at least with Runes!) with 4, 3, 2 seconds CD (1 second reduced after each use) (= 3~4 Uses / Camp)
--> With 3 Uses only: 99-378 dmg (+1.2 Bonus AD).
Assuming 2 Uses only: 66-252 (+.8 bonus AD), which would be more damage, considering you have more than 10 Bonus AD in runes and masteries, which you do.

Don't tell me you used Q only once per camp.
So before spreading wrong information, do the math!

Oh yeah, take into account that W's mana cost is rising with higher lvls while Q's doesn't. However, you will still want to use both, Q and W to clear camps.
So maxing W earlier results in slower clear times and more mana costs!.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Taiyodori:
This is assuming either using Q only a single time on each camp or using W more than once.

W Dmg: 80-260 max (+.8 AP, but you usually don't get any, at least not within the first 10 minutes) with 14 sec CD. (= 1 Use / Camp)

Q Dmg (to monsters): 33 - 126 (+.4 Bonus-AD, which you usually get, at least with Runes!) with 4, 3, 2 seconds CD (1 second reduced after each use) (= 3~4 Uses / Camp)
--> With 3 Uses only: 99-378 dmg (+1.2 Bonus AD).
Assuming 2 Uses only: 66-252 (+.8 bonus AD), which would be more damage, considering you have more than 10 Bonus AD in runes and masteries, which you do.

Don't tell me you used Q only once per camp.
So before spreading wrong information, do the math!

Oh yeah, take into account that W's mana cost is rising with higher lvls while Q's doesn't. However, you will still want to use both, Q and W to clear camps.
So maxing W earlier results in slower clear times and more mana costs!.

Now that the fine Gentleman has cleared up that issue.

Hecarim needs this! It would improve his initial clear so much


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Taiyodori

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Btw. would Hec' Q deal about the same amount of dmg to jungle camps as Skarner Q, if the dmg reduction on monsters was removed. Hec W and Skarner E are also quite equal regarding their early AoE dmg. (Assuming that both only put 1 point in W (Hec) / E (Skarner).)
Not sure, why Hecarim is supposed to be slower than skarner, but well...

So as you can see, this buff wouldn't make him "DESTROYING" the jungle, but rather equalizing the clearing times.
Granted though, Skarner has less sustain within the jungle.

But oh, that's a comparison between completely different champions again.


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JoeyMakesMagic

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Hecarim is trash tier at the moment, he doesn't clear well, his early game is even worse than it was in S2. He is incredibly item reliant and doesn't get as much gold as in S2. The movement speed increases really hurt him too, mid game I'm having trouble catching people, AS ****ING HECARIM. This is absurd, S2 I could pop ghost and stick to people no problem, now I hit ghost and if i'm lucky they just barely stay in range of my Q. Plus with the new armor pen he is squishy as balls even with a reasonable amount of armor. He is my main and there is zero reason to play him. I'm moving on until he gets some buffs.
Edit: It pisses me off that he has to start machete as well, I was told that junglers would be able to have multiple build paths, instead everyone either takes machete or clears slower than molasses.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
JoeyMakesMagic:
Hecarim is trash tier at the moment, he doesn't clear well, his early game is even worse than it was in S2. He is incredibly item reliant and doesn't get as much gold as in S2. The movement speed increases really hurt him too, mid game I'm having trouble catching people, AS ****ING HECARIM. This is absurd, S2 I could pop ghost and stick to people no problem, now I hit ghost and if i'm lucky they just barely stay in range of my Q. Plus with the new armor pen he is squishy as balls even with a reasonable amount of armor. He is my main and there is zero reason to play him. I'm moving on until he gets some buffs.
Edit: It pisses me off that he has to start machete as well, I was told that junglers would be able to have multiple build paths, instead everyone either takes machete or clears slower than molasses.

I feel you pain. I main Hecarim too! now i gotta go back to Nocturne...

As for the different build paths, they meant that for mid to late game, early game they ARE forced to start with that item, its just now the mid to late game items have more diversity to them.


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MedievalMan

Member

12-05-2012

I agree with Darklarik, his Q needs to do 100% damage to at least jungle monsters because he got crippled as a jungler in S3. He takes heavy damage from camps and doesn't clear fast enough at lvl 1 to save his ass without heavy damage from his team.
Hecarim is my main so these changes hurt. :/


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