3 Years Played, 4000+ Games, 2000+ Elo, And Perma Banned [LONG POST]

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yocko

Recruiter

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Because of this stigma, everyone loves to threaten to report, and click that report button when a player : 1) does poorly; or 2) says that you are doing poorly, giving reasons as to why; or 3) Insults your skill.
While this may be true, a persons statements are evaluated, I don't think many people deem "intentional feeding" to be a game a person goes 1/6/3 or even 0/7/2, but when I see a game that is 2/24/3, I begin to wonder, 2 more games like that and a pattern is established. There was a game I just saw a Sona reported for intentional feeding with a 2/17/49. Clearly NOT feeding since the rest of the team had about 15-20 deaths as well, the game went too long and the other team had a better comp more than likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Reporting should be reserved for malicious or wanton attacks (i.e. not those made jokingly) on someone’s character and intentional trolling. It would then follow that players would, and should, only be suspended for the two things listed above.
Game 1 and Game 4 would easily be considered punishable by me. I'll get to that in a minute. If you continue to troll it doesn't matter how minor it seems people don't appreciate it and Riot does have the policy on bans for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
I understand that some of the community disagrees. Some believe that “gg noobs” or “wow what are you doing wtf” as well as “you’re bad” are such terrible and hurtful comments that the utterance of such a phrase in game is evidence that a player should no longer be able to play the game, permanently or otherwise. I disagree.
Good Sportsmanship doesn't involve the phrase "gg noobs" or "you're bad" or "i'm the greatest look how bad you all suck". This is first off a team game. If you can't stand bad teammates then look for a game you don't have to have a team for. If you can't be a good sport about things then maybe you should consider a different hobby or activity. Calligraphy doesn't tend to make people nerd rage all over keyboards around the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Should attacks to someone’s gameplay skill warrant bans? I think that is a question that this community, as well as Riot needs to ask themselves. In my mind, the answer is No. And why would it be anything else?
Here's the thing about these attacks to someone's game play. You can approach it from several different angles. You can outright flame them. Or you can say something like: Don't rush the enemy team without support or you'll probably die. Maybe they're new to the champ. You too were once new and not awesome at everything. Consider they might be trying something out. Maybe they didn't know something you thought should be obvious. Try to assist before you EVER consider an insult, and when the insult arises SPEAK it to yourself and don't bother typing it, you'll save yourself time from these posts and the tribunal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
I submit that the only way to properly evaluate if someone has crossed the symbolic line is through empathy, that is, trying to put yourself in the player’s shoes.
I don't think I'd want to be the Graves from game one or the guy you claimed had Autism. By the way your flaming about his autism... Maybe you should educate yourself on WHAT IS AUTISM. You have a lack of understanding in the area and shouldn't make any assumptions about a player. If you saw someone named "Nooblord" would you just assume they were a complete troll too or what would you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
I think we can all agree that games 3 and 5 contain no malicious material what so ever. Specifically, game 3 contains a Clarity, AP, Support Ally Lux with no chat, and 5 contains nothing malicious, even while the Irelia player spammed the chat all game. I found that Myth contained his composure very well that game, so I believe we can skip over those, or perhaps take them into consideration in a positive light, your choice.
Agreed on Game 3, but game 5 you weren't ideal either, you had in some ways troll the Ezreal to a point I could see why he might want to report you. Was it ban worthy in itself? Probably not, but combined with your other 3 games... quite probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
In game 4, Myth jokingly asks a player if he is autistic. This summoner is actually named “Autism5ever” and once he starts freaking out in chat, Myth jokingly asks if he actually has autism. I’ve played with Autism5ever several times, and he has anger issues. He’s actually stole my red buff with Tibbers once when I was jungling. I can’t fault him for that game. However, none of this is known to those judging the case.
If you've played with this person multiple times, maybe you should consider this: Don't instigate him. Maybe he's a troll too, oh well, that happens and we live with it, he's not on tribunals case sheets. Don't post names either. You basically set yourself up for failure with statements about Autism. Odds are enough of the tribunal members have, know someone or are related to someone with Autism that they'd want to punish you for even starting something so minor in your mind. I'd have voted punish simply on that case there too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Now as to games 1 and 2; game 1 contains competitive jests to the laneing opponent. Is challenging someone’s skill, especially not even a teammate, something you feel that YOU should be banned for? I personally don’t, but clearly some do. There’s a lack of mandate in this issue, but I guess Riot’s stance is that it should be. I fundamentally disagree with that. Without personal attacks or trolling, how could we as a community think that’s enough to stop someone from enjoying the game with the rest of us?
Competitive banter escapes you is what I'm leaning to after this comment. See when you call someone bad or insult their gameplay, that's not banter, that's an insult. No one likes it, no one wants to hear it, and even if you think it's funny, you can't be certain you think they will.

Annie [All] [00:14:29] please do not misinterpret my competitive jests as personal attacks
Sona [All] [00:14:44] they are dire3ctly personal attacks
Sona [All] [00:14:56] lol they can't be interpreted as anything less.

Sona nails it on the head. This is the internet. If you want to convey sarcasm or subtle tone inflections... you're not going to be able to EASILY do so that will be interpreted by EVERYONE (especially because we all have different tolerances for it). Don't type something that can be mistake for something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Attack on character? Perhaps. Maliciously? Of course not. Surely no one here believes that Myth actually considered the players to be physically braindead. In context, we can see that the statement was made as an attack on skill, and I think what it comes down to is an attack on a players skill something reportable?
The statement about whether or not you think someone is ACTUALLY brain dead or not is no where near the question. A needless insult that may have pushed another person over the edge of "lets end this game so I don't have to play with this guy anymore" to "REPORT THE TROLL". See after just a bit of analysis we can establish a pattern you type things you shouldn't, most tribunal cases have this problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
So, do we as the community hold that 2 instances of attacks on player skill warrant a perma-ban? I would argue no, but generally, I think that many of you may, which I think is something that needs to be considered more in depth.
I don't think there is much to consider to be completely honest. You have 3 games that are not idea, 2 that are definite punishes in my mind and 1 that would sway it if I was debating. 3/5 is sitll 60% and is MORE than enough evidence to punish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
I’ll leave you with this:
Should attacks to someone’s gameplay skill warrant bans? Shall it be limited to malicious and wanton attacks on character and trolling, or are you ok with players being permanently banned for telling someone they believe them to be unskilled?
There's a way to approach people. You don't need to insult people's intelligence or say "this WHOEVER", "GG noobs", or just insult a person's gameplay.

I could add much more but I don't see any reason to do so considering the evidence to punish a person with the given games.

TL;DR - He's deserving of a ban and I've broken down his assertions above, the games 1, 4 and 5 outline it best, 1 and 4 are pretty good examples if you are curious.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lord Ferret

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Commander Yocko the op was the one this case was about. it was his friend myth.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Commander Yocko

Recruiter

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ferret View Post
Commander Yocko the op was the one this case was about. it was his friend myth.
Probably true, I didn't have the time to read through all 60+ pages, but since it was still going on in debate I had to wonder....


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bane1998

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LgN Demunlul View Post
Iíll leave you with this:
Should attacks to someoneís gameplay skill warrant bans? Shall it be limited to malicious and wanton attacks on character and trolling, or are you ok with players being permanently banned for telling someone they believe them to be unskilled?
Seems the TLDR version of your post is 'if they suck, there should be nothing wrong with telling them they suck'

There's a huge entitlement mentality and lack of empathy of different kinds of players, it seems. As awesome as you think you are at the game, whether you are or not, you need to not lose sight of the fact that this is a game. People log on to play the game and burn hours having 'fun'... something I think a lot of people forget.

How good a person is or isn't at the game has no bearing on how a person should be treated. An example I like to think of is like my girlfriend or elderly dad or younger sister playing. They don't 'get' the game. They don't understand mid is generally AP, they don't understand support roles. They've never even seen a jungler. By all accounts, they 'suck' at the game, pretty badly. But they log in, and they have lots of fun. They enjoy themselves. At the end of the day it's a game and that's what it's about. They aren't looking to be competitive or even good, really. And good for them, enjoying video games, putting money into Riot's pockets, so Riot can make a better game for them, and for you too!

I will happily click punish for anyone giving people a hard time about their skill. You aren't helping. If you want to help, you could explain the meta game if you want to them, that's fine, but ragging on them is not fine. And even if you explain what a jungler is or whatever, they still won't care. And that's fine, too. Get over your leet self.

If you're really so much better than your teammates, then over time, you will get lifted to a ranking where people are of similar skill to your own, and you won't even have the problem. If you feel your teammates are so much more horrible than yourself, you might want to take an honest look at why you are so bad that you are still matched with them.

And don't whine 'well then they shouldn't play ranked.' Lots of people play ranked cuz they want to know if they are improving or not, to see their number go up or down, but it's still a game. You think everyone playing in ranked is really furiously trying to work their way into the pro circuit? They aren't. I would guess a lot of people just like seeing a metric attached to their account. Stats. Seeing movement in an ever so slightly positive direction. They will never be 2000 elo and they never want to be. Leave them alone.

So my TLDR is this: 'Skill' shouldn't even be in your vocabulary when talking about tribunals or bans or bad behavior. The two are completely, and totally, unrelated. You can be a good or bad member of the community with crappy or no ELO, or with professional-level ELO. If you disconnect the concept of 'skill' from being a positive member of the community, you'll get further in life, and understand better what the Tribunal is all about.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Only Tristana

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Chinese 051 View Post
i guess ur just ignorant.


It's not all about a player with 4000+ games got banned, it's more like what he was banned for.

I do know that ppl like you would never consider for others or stand in their position.

1-2 game of 5 reports with some kind of offensive words for a perma ban? really? those words are not very offensive actually ( compared with some really rude persons :/) Obviously more evidences are requested.

btw... 4000 + games in 2+ years = each day 5-6 games or 2-3 hours' game play.

ur more like a weirdos with no life... =. =
Actually it'll be three years in April =P Anyway, those five reports are chosen at complete random. They could be tame or they might be the worst of all his reports, we'll never know. We also have no way to know just how many reports he even has, but it's probably a lot since he's permabanned.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stahp Feedin Pls

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-05-2012

overall tribunal is a joke...i got banned for ap caitlyn in "dominion" and the game lasted 8min 37 seconds.....Honestly your wasting your time with this thread
Riot Does not Care what you have to say~


riot - Say's we encourage unique builds > goes ap cait in "dominion made for fun" > Gets banned > why you have ap ratios on cait if you can't go ap? lul.

i made my point`


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Me Chinese 051

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by aziraphale7 View Post
Actually it'll be three years in April =P Anyway, those five reports are chosen at complete random. They could be tame or they might be the worst of all his reports, we'll never know. We also have no way to know just how many reports he even has, but it's probably a lot since he's permabanned.
still a much shorter time compared us who played for 4+ years.

So you are saying that sufficient evidences are not necessary for a perma ban?

All reports count valid? No need to find out those abused reports?

he is perma banned because he got many reports no matter these reports are valid or not?

If you have no way to approach sufficient evidences, what made u push the "punish" ?

For the sake of "Justice"?

Tribunal works well because it doesnt need sufficient evidences for viewers to push "punish"?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Space Racist

Senior Member

12-05-2012

It's really not hard to not get banned from a game. If you get banned it's for good reason. If you do not understand why you deserved the ban, this is 50% of the issue. Warnings and time bans are there to help control toxic behavior as well as help to educate you as a player in how to improve how you come across to others online, through your actions, reactions, words and attitude.

Just because you do not agree with the reason why you were banned, or do not understand why you were banned - does not mean the punishment was unjust. And I've yet to see a single person appear on the forums who has been banned by the Tribunal for "nothing".

The Tribunal is not perfect - but the ways in which it can be improved are not related to the final outcomes of each case. For example, the decision on whether a player is Pardoned or Punished is not one that will change unless there is a change to the Summoner's Code or the guidelines for reviewing Tribunal cases. The Code nor the guidelines have been altered in any major way since the launch of the Tribunal system - and the final outcomes and punishments haven't either.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Janna F Kennedy

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Well, I didn't even say anything close to that bad and i got perma'd too...

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5689810/#nogo

I mean the last game i get attacked first, but It's still my fault? sigh.

The tribunal is a broken system, and it's really sad how you can get banned for saying so little... It's basically me getting trolled by premades.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Space Racist

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant Ban Skill View Post
Well, I didn't even say anything close to that bad and i got perma'd too...

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5689810/#nogo

I mean the last game i get attacked first, but It's still my fault? sigh.

The tribunal is a broken system, and it's really sad how you can get banned for saying so little... It's basically me getting trolled by premades.
Again, highly doubtful it's your first offence - a previous warning or time ban would have also influenced the final punishment. It wouldn't have influenced the Pardon/Punish decision in that case, because reviewers don't see previous cases about you. But Riot picks the harsher punishments - based on the outcomes of more than one case of Tribunal.