Shattering the concept that ELO is a measurement of a Players skill with a Champion.

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SpAceWaffLeS

Senior Member

12-10-2012

tl;dr

but, ELO was never a measure of player skill at all, it is a measure of one's ability to win.

I could of told you that in 1 sentence, didn't need to go write a book about it <,<


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SpAceWaffLeS

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylon View Post
I just played a ranked game. 18/3/9 as Graves with 379 farm. Still lost. I had to buy my own wards, I bought at least 3 oracles because no one else did. This is just par for the course and it's because you have good players and not so good players in the same game. Which is because the lack of matchmaking data. This is the problem with elo hell.

http://imgur.com/alvCR

1. When you are very fed as an ADC, stop farming, push objectives. The later the game goes the more the other team catches up in relative gold.

2. If you were 18/3/9 and 379 farm, I am guessing you were max build. Stop taking so much CS and let your teammates work on their build. No point in having 3000 spare gold and full build when your AP Mid is missing an entire item (looked at your image you posted, you should get IE, MASSIVE dps increase over another bt or whatever that 6th item is). Crit scales AMAZING with late game items.

3. Not ELO Hell, your player skill with graves is definitely better than the other players in that game, but your ability to win is not; elo measures ability to win, not skill.


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Mylon

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

I wasn't farming. I was trying to get my team to push and do baron for much of the game. Lee and Diana kept getting caught. And standing around doing nothing. Only Taric was warding, and then just barely, so they were too afraid to leave the base to push, much less farm. I got an oracle and ate at least 15 wards myself.


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rawpower405

Senior Member

12-10-2012

This is really easy to demonstrate how 1) the size of the player pool and 2) the number of games played easily shows how Elo hell gets created.

POV of winning= 50%
POV of winning 10 games in a row = 1 in 1024
POV of winning 15 games in a row= 1 in 32,768

average elo game per win=12
Starting elo per win =25

This means that 1000 users were at 1500 elo by winning 15 games in a row. And we know that AT LEAST 1000 users have won 15 games in a row, regardless of the ranking they should have. Conversely, that also means 1000 players have LOST 15 games in a row, plummeting them to 900 elo.

Elo has very little to do with your actual skill and more to do with the skill of your teammates and your opponents. Furthermore, the aptitude each player has with regards to each role has more to do with elo than game knowledge.

This is also easy to explain. A pitcher is more important position than a right fielder. A major league pitcher, playing in the minors, has a higher probability of bringing his team to victory than a major league right fielder. A major league 4th at bat will have a higher probability of bringing his team to victory in the minors than a major league 9th at bat. The pitcher, right fielder, 4th at bat, and 9th at bat, all belong at 2k+ elo, but all have different aptitudes for roles that bring higher probability of success and thus have different elos with sub-par teams.

Regardless, measuring an individual's elo in a team game through the use of simple wins and losses is silly.

Hall of Famer Steve Young's record at the Bucs was 3-16. His elo would have been abysmal. And that's with the QB, the most important offensive position. Imagine all of the HOF offensive linemen who sport career losing records (these guys are akin to supports).


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rawpower405

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Here's another way of thinking about:

Lets say you've played 400 games, what are the odds that you lost 10 matches in a row given a win probability of 50%?

Well that would be 17.5%, roughly 1 in 6 players with 400 games have lost 10 matches in a row, regardless of their ranking.

Another example:
Probability that a player with 400 games has lost 7 in a row (filling up their recent games list):
79%. 8 out of 10 players having lost 7 in a row, simply by matchmaking alone, does not represent league of legends aptitude, but instead represents merely luck. Yes, luck does exist. Yes, all of us have experienced. Yes, game outcome is much more reliant on luck, teammates, and character roles, than it does on actual aptitude.


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Magni

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
2. Ability to gauge an opponents power level vs your own
I wish people were better at this. #1 cause of feeding.


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Ixioran

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Is there a Spark Notes version that I can tack on my wall? For reference in game of course.


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixioran View Post
Is there a Spark Notes version that I can tack on my wall? For reference in game of course.
lol this amuses me.

<3


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Ixioran

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
lol this amuses me.

<3
Being totally serious though. Like, any of the bare necessities (yes, movie reference) that I could perhaps write down on a sticky note or something. When I make a mistake or something, a guiding light to set me along the correct path to success, so that I may ride a flaming unicorn of glory to victory?

Just the things that you would want if you were otherwise unaware.


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I don't really feel like retyping it at the moment lol