Shattering the concept that ELO is a measurement of a Players skill with a Champion.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DeeZy

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

12-08-2012

interesting read. i kind of agree with some of these points. but there are a few things i find flawed in your conclusion. although the majority of it is spot on.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

phatcat09

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeZy View Post
interesting read. i kind of agree with some of these points. but there are a few things i find flawed in your conclusion. although the majority of it is spot on.
What's driving me insane is that people keep saying this, but each of my points relies on the others @-@.

What don't you agree with?

List it in bullet form don't say why ask me then see if we actually differ in opinion or if you're reading wrong from my intentions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dr Hazo

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

12-09-2012

I read all that hoping to find a well written argument about how ELO doesn't measure skill in a "big picture" kind of way, but it was more like a guide for some basic player skills (why wouldn't you call map awareness a skill? same with all the others) and no ELO system discussion.
ELO number was always a score about the probability of losing or winning a game, anybody who bothers to read wikipedia knows that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

phatcat09

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Then you entire skipped over the conclusion if you think those were any assertions I made. please re-read. This is not a 5 minute read.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mylon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I wrote a pretty length essay on the problems with ranked a while back: Elo Hell and why it takes 6 months to climb out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=670634

The short and skinny: There's not enough matchmaking data so too much of the playerbase is clustered into a relatively tiny area, resulting in uneven and unfun games. Season 1 had a fresh plate, seasons 2 and 3 started off by throwing out much of the built up matchmaking data.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

phatcat09

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylon View Post
I wrote a pretty length essay on the problems with ranked a while back: Elo Hell and why it takes 6 months to climb out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=670634

The short and skinny: There's not enough matchmaking data so too much of the playerbase is clustered into a relatively tiny area, resulting in uneven and unfun games. Season 1 had a fresh plate, seasons 2 and 3 started off by throwing out much of the built up matchmaking data.
No one deserves to be higher than the Elo they've achieved lost matches due to leavers included. If you read what I wrote you'd no longer think it was an issue..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mylon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
no one deserves to be higher than the Elo they've achieved lost matches due to leavers included. If you read what I wrote you'd no longer think it was an issue..
I'm not saying anyone deserves anything. I'm pointing out that even a skilled player that contributes more than twice the usual win rate to a game needs to play the game as a part time job for 6 months to get away from the largest collection of players.

The consequence of this information is that there's a lot of skilled players still in 1200-1400 ( AKA Elo Hell ) that are fighting one another and making it difficult to climb out. Every time we start with a fresh slate like with the new seasons we're only repeating the problem.

My post doesn't even address leavers or trolls, but even they slow down this progression! They turn my assumed 60% win rate for the skilled player and trend it towards 55.6%, lowering their overall win rate.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

phatcat09

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylon View Post
I'm not saying anyone deserves anything...........

I don't see this as an issue worth complaining about.

edit: this is because of the Tier system (A-Ranked & B-Ranked)

Riot is well aware of the common pitfalls of Elo (at lest i hope they are) your essay unfortunately promotes the wrong thinking that "it's not my problem it's Riots" when in reality it's still 100% their problem when all people are faced with the same challenge.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mylon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
I don't see this as an issue worth complaining about.
This is a HUGE issue. My normal games are fun and entertaining and I feel often rewarded for playing well (not just playing my champion correctly, but controlling the map, making the calls for the team, etc) and generally both teams play fairly consistently. Contrast this with ranked solo play where individual skill varies wildly. One person is gonna get a plat-level player opponent and get stepped on and then they turn around to carry the game, totally offsetting my gold-level play in my own lane.

This isn't to say that I deserve to be a higher elo because of these games, but rather these games are wildly uneven and unfun. And the reason for this is insufficient matchmaking data. Normal queue has had 3 YEARS of data to stratify the player base and put players into their niches and this is why the games feel better. Ranked is kept perpetually young and is wild as a result.

Edit: In response to your edit: While everyone suffers the same challenges equally, this is still Riot's problem because these challenges are making the game less fun. It's like having an overpowered champion or item. It can be worked around (bans, counterpicks, counter builds, or in the case of elo hell, lots and lots and lots of games), but that doesn't mean it should not be fixed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mylon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I just played a ranked game. 18/3/9 as Graves with 379 farm. Still lost. I had to buy my own wards, I bought at least 3 oracles because no one else did. This is just par for the course and it's because you have good players and not so good players in the same game. Which is because the lack of matchmaking data. This is the problem with elo hell.

http://imgur.com/alvCR