Shattering the concept that ELO is a measurement of a Players skill with a Champion.

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Elier

Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
Elo is measurement of probability of success, success is evaluated by your ability to play the game, your ability to be successful in the game is based on 1 of 5 major skill areas that can be further sub-divided or labeled. Ergo your ability play well has a relationship with Elo.

How is this point being missed...

You people are chosing to ignore the preface aren't you...------^
You didn't get my point.

Whate Elo measures and what it takes to be a good player are 2 different things, one having an indirect impact on the other, but still different, and you are mixing them up.

Elo = % of win
win = be a better team
be a better team = have better players overall
have better players = each player being better
being a better player = points 1 to 5

So what you are are saying is completely valid and very useful on how to improve as a player, and of course being better improves your chances of winning, but it's not 1:1, it's more like 1:5, because you are 1/5 of your team.

That was my point, that there is a relationship indeed, but it's not direct, and Elo isn't purely a measure of a players skill, it involves a lot of other things.

Example 1

Player A is good enough to be at 1900 Elo, but he only plays 4-5 games a week because he has other things to do.

Player B is not as good, say ~1500 good, but he plays 40-50 games a week.

If both start at 1200, chances are, that by the end of the season players A and B will be around the same Elo, because the game will not have enough data to rate player A accurately.

Example 2

Players C and D have a very similar skill level and they both play the same amount of games, but player C was lucky and won more of the first games, he ended 7-3. Player D on the other hand was unlucky and ended 2-8.

These games are worth ~40 Elo each, so player C now has 1360 Elo, and player D has 960. Those first 10 games created a 400 Elo breach between them, and now it will take a ridiculous amount of games for them to get to the same Elo.


PD: I'm not saying that Elo is not each players responsibility, it is, and of course if you can contribute more to your team you will have better chances of winning. I'm just saying that there is more to it than that.


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bunies

Senior Member

12-11-2012

elo = luck of getign non brain dead teamates


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Trakzful

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Stop giving bad players excuses for not being bad


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Jack Gates

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Excellent guide. I actually bookmarked it to spam after a team throws a match. The volume of grammar and spelling errors, however, made me throw up in my mouth. Tactical retreat. TACTICAL. PLEA. OH GOD MAKE IT STOP


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Jack Gates

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elier View Post
You didn't get my point.

Whate Elo measures and what it takes to be a good player are 2 different things, one having an indirect impact on the other, but still different, and you are mixing them up.

Elo = % of win
win = be a better team
be a better team = have better players overall
have better players = each player being better
being a better player = points 1 to 5

So what you are are saying is completely valid and very useful on how to improve as a player, and of course being better improves your chances of winning, but it's not 1:1, it's more like 1:5, because you are 1/5 of your team.

That was my point, that there is a relationship indeed, but it's not direct, and Elo isn't purely a measure of a players skill, it involves a lot of other things.

Example 1

Player A is good enough to be at 1900 Elo, but he only plays 4-5 games a week because he has other things to do.

Player B is not as good, say ~1500 good, but he plays 40-50 games a week.

If both start at 1200, chances are, that by the end of the season players A and B will be around the same Elo, because the game will not have enough data to rate player A accurately.

Example 2

Players C and D have a very similar skill level and they both play the same amount of games, but player C was lucky and won more of the first games, he ended 7-3. Player D on the other hand was unlucky and ended 2-8.

These games are worth ~40 Elo each, so player C now has 1360 Elo, and player D has 960. Those first 10 games created a 400 Elo breach between them, and now it will take a ridiculous amount of games for them to get to the same Elo.


PD: I'm not saying that Elo is not each players responsibility, it is, and of course if you can contribute more to your team you will have better chances of winning. I'm just saying that there is more to it than that.
This. Basically the issue with elo isn't that there is an elo hell, it's that your placement is largely dependent on luck, and from there it takes months of grinding to do anything.

The only real problem with elo is the grind. It makes the level grind in WoW look like nothing.


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-12-2012

bump


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ZeroKuno

Senior Member

12-12-2012

This is all good and stuff but you need to have readers that comprehend all that.
I personally didn't learn 1 thing that's new in here that I didn't learn through normal queues.


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Learn to read better

Quote:
preface:

Yes there are a number of memes and examples to keep you entertained while reading.

The following is a guide to help players understand what elo represents from a contextual level. It is not an argument for what elo is not, outside of the primary assertion that it is not a measurement of your ability to play a champion alone, i acknowledge that there are multiple ways to present elo as explained in this document, but believe presenting it in the correct way will yield better understanding and less frustration about elo as an indication of player worth. Please bare this in mind while reading forward.

If you don't want to read this because it's too long then do everyone a favor and keep it to yourself -- no one cares that you have a short attention span -- this is for people who want to learn
the message contained below is not a new message. Just because you understand doesn't mean everyone does or should know without being told, not everything is written for you, but if you ignore this post and don't get something out of it because it seems rudimentary please remember we don't need to hear about how good you are this is for players who need help!

Don't just vote read! The information can help you or serve as a reminder.

You are not a toxic person don't let names define who you are or you'll become it.


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JannaSummoner

Member

12-12-2012

This is the OP -- I'm bringing this post up because I'm looking for discussion. Please do not ban be if this is against the rules - (I haven't seen anywhere where they are against I apologize if they are posted somewhere)!


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-15-2012

bump