[Champion Concept ver. 2.0] Shia, The Void's Timid Doppel

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

blackkat101

Senior Member

01-01-2013

As Dzanio is the oldest review I've not commented on, I'll start with that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
I would like it if the Doppel set of abilities were designed create synergy between Shia and her companion, i.e. letting her do things like blink back to his position at the end of Waltz in the Light by reactivating her q; adding options where her doppel will automatically focus champions she targets/that are afflicted by certain abilities. Having aspects of the abilities perform something for shia that the doppel can follow up on, or having the doppel perform actions (like tanking) which highly benefit shia, so she can reposition herself.
With what you said here, having Shia reposition herself while the Doppel tanks does not work as the main body cannot move while the doppel is out. Same with having the doppel auto focus enemy champions for her. Shia is not designed for both body's to be moving simultaneously. Think of it as her mind in one body or another at one time. This is set up like this also because Riot is not set up for controlling 2 champions at one time, so I attempted to address that as such.

Also, as far as synergy:

1. Main body: Using the E passive to use brush to close the distance on the enemy.
2. Main body: Hit with Q to slow and to further increase the chance of hitting with next step.
3. Main body: W wall to further increase speed and block the enemy vision (hit them with it to cause them to flee if necessary.
4. Main body: Now that they cannot see you beyond the wall, position yourself and summon your doppel to a location.
5. Doppel body: Jump on them with your gap closer Q and quickly unleash your W nuke.
6. Doppel body: Continue to Q around them if they stay and ready your shield to help reduce damage.
7: Doppel body: If you are unable to finish them and they run out of your doppel's range, or they are to powerful and are now bursting you, release your doppel.
7: Main body: Hopefully you hid your body in the brush or a safe distance away so that you may make your escape.

That combo was posted in a earlier post of mine, but it show's how pretty much all of Shia's abilities can work with each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
I would probably not spawn the Doppel at max health if it were self deactivated – this has the potential to be really op; I’d make it the higher of 50% of shia’s current health, or the health it was at before deactivation.
I think you're confused. The doppel summons at the same percent of HP that Shia is at, not at full health. I.E. if Shia is at 50% HP, the doppel summons at 50%. If Shia is at 10% HP, the doppel summons at 10% and so on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
Q: This is a nice escape mechanism; The AOE is pretty huge, as is the duration of the slow at later ranks—I might change the duration mechanic to be the inverse of a name ult, slowing enemies near her more than/longer than those farther away. Since this is an escape device, I would also slightly decrease the travel speed; it currently has a move speed of 1000, I’d make it have a move speed closer to ~650-800 (reference; 1.5 seconds to reach max range is 666 ms). I feel that would be a bit more in keeping with her timid theme. I would also suggest increasing the scaling on the slow %, keep in mind that her passive reduces the effectiveness of the scaling by .5-.8; alternatively I would simply increase the base value significantly and make the full effect of the slow range dependent, as discussed above.
Ah, sorry, really bad with using the travel speed numbers. I did not mean this wave to be fast. I ment it to be about as slow as Ashe's Volley. Maybe even just a bit slower. So maybe a missile speed of 2000? I'm trying to guess that the missile/travel speed numbers are 1000=1sec, but I cannot find anything that specifically states that. I will change it to that later. Thank you for pointing that out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
Dopple Q: I think this is probably a good balance between difficulty of use, and utility. It should be difficult to make clutch invulns nullify burst damage/cc, but a skilled player should also be able to benefit from it. The most logical reference ability I can think of for this is Fizz’s Playful/Trickster which at max ranks makes him untargetable for .75 seconds once every 8 seconds (before CDR), and I think the invuln duration is a little long compared to it; I’d be looking at something closer to .3 seconds per use. I do think the damage needs to be increased however, currently looking at an AP scaling of .62 to .72 (scaling on the passive). She scales off of pen better than she does off of AP since it’s useful in both forms; I would prefer to see this do magic damage so she can benefit from items like sorc shoes/Liandry’s/abyssal; currently seems more balanced towards season 2 build guidelines, and I think it’s underpowered even for that. I would increase the base damage to somewhere around 130-150 at max ranks (I see her more as an AP bruiser more than a carry (so far), and they are very dependent upon base damage and mr pen). I would also let this function as an auto attack reset applying things like her base physical damage, and on hit effects. This assumes you want her to be an AP type champ.
It is not supposed to do the highest amount of damage because of the ability to close the gap and a small invulnerability frame. I think the damage is right where I want it for how often you can use it and the utility the spell provides.

While yes it does not synergize with sorc boots or abyssal as well because of the physical damage, Liandry's Torment works with all spell damage. Not magic damage. Thus you'd still be getting the proc from it, the HP and the AP if you so choose to build it. The only think you'd be missing out on would be the magic pen.

Brusiers do not need pen (even if it helps), such as Riven. In season 2, the shiny new Black Cleaver didn't exist and you built for just raw damage with HP mainly. It can work wonders. Might not be the best example, but just saying that Bruisers don't "need" to have the pen. Shia was set up with the armor pen just to say it's there, but most will not generally use it when building her as you'd have to sacrifice AP to build it. This was done on purpose and the scaling on all of her abilities is to reflect that.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
W: The description you’re looking for is Terrify, not fear (works like hec ult, not fiddle’s.. w?). Someone else I was reviewing recently must have read this ability; Oculus (forget the rest of the title) has a similar wall. To clarify, enemies lose vision of the entire map when walking through the wall (i.e. Graves’s smokescreen)? This seems appropriate.
Nope, the description I'm looking for is Flee. Even posted by a RED, Hecarim's Ult is the only thing in the game that uses this unique Fear and in it it says "causing them to flee in terror." Some people mistake the CC effect to be Terrify because of that, but as posted by a RED, it is Flee, not Terrify.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
Dopple W: Again I don’t like physical damage which scales solely off AP simply because the shop is not set up to deal with it; the sunder mechanism should persist for more than one attack regardless; 2-3ish seconds. Would be nice if you had some abilities which buff your team in your doppel form.
I realize you don't like the physical damage when mentioned above, but lets leave that alone for now as that will not be changing any time soon. Let's get on to the ability.

The sunder was not given a duration because of how much it can sunder. I was also trying not to make Shia's doppel too over powered and I thought a lasting sunder would cause such. Shia's main body gives enough team play that I wanted to have the doppel focus more on herself and just deal damage.

I do not think I'll be changing that as it detracts from what I was designing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
E: I don’t think the AOE on the active is appropriate for a shy person; I’d make this a short duration invis personally. Would Shia heartlessly abandon her doppel (it doesn’t benefit from the movespeed—I realize it blinks back to her when it reaches the tether range, but for character development, is the ability appropriate?)? Values are low for season 3.
Just because someone is shy doesn't mean they cannot help her allies in the shadows. On a note on the invisibility, would that not be way to over powered given the vision blocking wall that Shia can create with her main body W. As far as the values, I do not believe them to be low at all. Well at least not too low, they would be enough to notice a difference, but they are not to be like a Shurelya's. Think of it more like a Sona movement buff.

You also mention the doppel blinking back if it reaches tether range. I think you have another slight misunderstanding. Think of the tether range like a wall or bubble placed up when the doppel is out. The doppel cannot leave that range and would stop as if it ran into it. I'm not sure where this blinking came about that you mention.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
Doppel E: OP o.O; this is an ultimate, except it’s on the wrong button. Look at annie’s Molten shield for an example; it’s not a Kayle ult for Shia + ali ult for Doppel + super thornmail for both + Olaf ult; some resistances are appropriate, maybe make the dopple take the damage that would have been directed at shia; small base damage, and reasonable AP scaling appropriate. More useful if it’s a utility ability of moderate to long duration which lessens the likelyhood of the enemy team focusing shia, so they’ll go for other, squishier targets instead. I would get rid of “ignores cc” and go for a % tenacity buff.
I will concede on the ignores cc on the doppel body for a % tenacity buff. That seems appropriate. Will be changed later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
R: Repeat comments as before concerning Physical damage and AP. Some comments in the general comments section.
Repeat responses from earlier, but I will make a list of Items for Shia later so that you can see some possible builds. Another time though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
More General comments: I really should started by reading the ult description before writing that; I’m sure there are a bunch of inconsistencies throughout this review as I got a better feel for how the champ worked -.-

I don’t personaly like the Shia useless while doppel is out mechanism; I think it would be more fun (and a better mechanism) to be able to actually control both Shia and her doppel, pretty much all the time, and then have her escape kit for when/if the doppel actually dies. Of course if you implemented this suggestion the entire champ would have to be rebalanced. As it is Shia is too safe while the doppel is out, so the ult mechanic is somewhat overpowered.
Controlling both at the same time is something that I think Riot would never allow and Shia was basically designed with that in mind. This way, I believe she has a chance (if only at winning the power ball odds) of making it into the League.

Like you said, if I changed it so that the main body could be controlled at the same time as the doppel I'd need to rework the whole champion.

On Shia's body being too safe while the doppel is out, I'm not sure that is true. As she cannot move and if the enemy team has vision wards or oracles they can see and damage the main body. That and even if they cannot see it, if an aoe attack hits her it still hurts.





Anywho, that is all I have time for today. Will comment on the next review later.

- Kat


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RenegadeTQ

Senior Member

01-09-2013

Reserved.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tehrinite

Senior Member

06-02-2013

bump