Are tanks the new meta?

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Tarabull

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12-03-2012

Hello Everyone. I've been getting back into ranked play this season. I'm by no means amazing with my 1400 rating, but I've been noticing a trend in my ranked games. I'm seeing more and more players just play durable, tanky champions. I've started keeping track after I noticed it in my first ten games of the season. A lot of teams are playing 3 tanks, 2 carries or if possible 4 tanks and 2 carries (Mage/tank mid Ex: Mordikaser, Galio, etc.)

I've found that most of these teams end up being very hard to conquer. Most of these teams end up being able to end games at 30 minutes before the carries can even start to fight back. Even my last ranked game ,that I just played, we ended up not having a ADC on our team. We played 5 tank and we won at 25 minutes. There was just no competition. Neither of the enemy's carries could farm, and by extension, do damage. Everyone on our team was so tanky and had such great built-in damage the support and jungler just couldn't peel.

TLDR So what are your thoughts on the matter fellow players? Are tank teams becoming the new meta, or are the just the easiest way to win against noobs like myself?

My thoughts: Personally I think it's a bit of both. I think playing a full tank team in most cases with render average players confused about what they should be doing in a game. I also feel durable champions are on the rise. Over the last several patches starting somewhere in the middle of season II, new champions have gotten tankier and tankier. Like wise, junglers seem to be getting more and more burst, as well as assassins that are being reworked and buffed. Sometimes I feel that the bottom lane all but requires a tank. I think it's because junglers have gotten more ganky, and more mids seem to be roaming a lot more. Personally alot of the time I can't stop pressure bottom when playing support. For instance, a Rengar with an oracles will completely stop me and my carry from farming like we should. He will be able to crush my wards and gank with great power. If I'm playing something like soraka, or sona support, forget about not hugging the tower and even then...


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Great Pyrenees

Senior Member

12-03-2012

I think its a case of tanks are safer to play and win with in the lower Elo's but this mentality will keep them in the lower elo forever in Season 3. Why? Becasue season 3 has not launched and I will explain to you why this is bad for tanks. Armor and MR are getting nerfs. Armor and MR are going to cost 20% more in season 3. Damage is going to cost 20% less in season 3. This means Talon will have a 40% gold advantage over tanks, this means Talon is going to assasinate tanks in season 3! Not convinced assasins will? Then did you know Armor penetration and Magic penetration are getting buffed in season 3! Bascially adding an additional 25% damage to assasins and mages. So in conclusion being a tank is not a safe bet in season 3 at all. Every team will want 1 tanky jungler I would imagine (Dont know for a fact yet) but a team of tanks in season 3 is going to be man handled. Hope this helps you out buddy (Btw poppy best tank s3 Im calling it, her passive that good). Take care!


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acosn

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarabull View Post
Hello Everyone. I've been getting back into ranked play this season. I'm by no means amazing with my 1400 rating, but I've been noticing a trend in my ranked games. I'm seeing more and more players just play durable, tanky champions. I've started keeping track after I noticed it in my first ten games of the season. A lot of teams are playing 3 tanks, 2 carries or if possible 4 tanks and 2 carries (Mage/tank mid Ex: Mordikaser, Galio, etc.)

I've found that most of these teams end up being very hard to conquer. Most of these teams end up being able to end games at 30 minutes before the carries can even start to fight back. Even my last ranked game ,that I just played, we ended up not having a ADC on our team. We played 5 tank and we won at 25 minutes. There was just no competition. Neither of the enemy's carries could farm, and by extension, do damage. Everyone on our team was so tanky and had such great built-in damage the support and jungler just couldn't peel.

TLDR So what are your thoughts on the matter fellow players? Are tank teams becoming the new meta, or are the just the easiest way to win against noobs like myself?

My thoughts: Personally I think it's a bit of both. I think playing a full tank team in most cases with render average players confused about what they should be doing in a game. I also feel durable champions are on the rise. Over the last several patches starting somewhere in the middle of season II, new champions have gotten tankier and tankier. Like wise, junglers seem to be getting more and more burst, as well as assassins that are being reworked and buffed. Sometimes I feel that the bottom lane all but requires a tank. I think it's because junglers have gotten more ganky, and more mids seem to be roaming a lot more. Personally alot of the time I can't stop pressure bottom when playing support. For instance, a Rengar with an oracles will completely stop me and my carry from farming like we should. He will be able to crush my wards and gank with great power. If I'm playing something like soraka, or sona support, forget about not hugging the tower and even then...
Mord isn't a tank.

Tanks are, by definition, able to take a hit, but more importantly, initiate. Disruption fits into this too.

If a character is only durable, they're just a soak. Traditionally they actually deal damage though.

A team that stacks tanks will always lose if they can't get fed because they're simply trading too much damage for too much utility.

A team that stacks soaks and tanks protracts it out longer, but still has the, "win now or lose later" meta going.


At lower elo's it really is easier to just roll soaks and tanks because bad people don't think in terms of team comps and dynamics. Its much easier to convince your team that they just need to push and win than it is to convince them that having half as many kills as the other team is negotiable.


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Tha Dynamite

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Senior Member

12-03-2012

Meta, team comps, and other seemingly fundamental concepts mean nothing at a certain level of play.

Why is it considered proper to have bot be duo and top be solo in the first place? Because it is advantageous to have four players capable of doing and contesting dragon, as it is the prime early and mid game objective. But if team doesn't utilities this fact, then it's rather pointless to do it.

Same thing for team comps. Why play carry and support bottom when the carry or support has no idea what they are doing? Why not just play a bruiser kill lane on bot and stomp them?
Also, for mid. Why play a squishy AP mid when you can pick,a bruiser kill laner and stomp him?

You need to know what a team comp is capable of to fully utilize the meta.

Long story short. No. Tanks are not the new meta. Utility is.


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Tarabull

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12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by acosn View Post
Mord isn't a tank.

Tanks are, by definition, able to take a hit, but more importantly, initiate. Disruption fits into this too.
I suppose I should clarify a little. I didn't mean just tanks, I also meant durable champions. Mordikaser is just one of those champions that has a the built in durability that can be a problem later.

What I was trying to say in my OP was I've just been seeing teams dominated by such picks as Garen, Cho gath, Darius, Moakai, etc. These are all champions that end up dominating a game because they can become incredibly tanky while still having moderatly high dips. Like one of these last games I had a Cho gath do almost 900 dmg with his ult.

I suppose waiting for the season III patch to come up is something to do. I haven't been playing the beta so I can only read what is going on.


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Tarabull

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12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboRal View Post
Meta, team comps, and other seemingly fundamental concepts mean nothing at a certain level of play.

Why is it considered proper to have bot be duo and top be solo in the first place? Because it is advantageous to have four players capable of doing and contesting dragon, as it is the prime early and mid game objective. But if team doesn't utilities this fact, then it's rather pointless to do it.

Same thing for team comps. Why play carry and support bottom when the carry or support has no idea what they are doing? Why not just play a bruiser kill lane on bot and stomp them?
Also, for mid. Why play a squishy AP mid when you can pick,a bruiser kill laner and stomp him?

You need to know what a team comp is capable of to fully utilize the meta.

Long story short. No. Tanks are not the new meta. Utility is.
Best comment yet in my opinion.

I suppose a new question to ask is, do you think we will see a big change in the general meta of temp comps? Carries are feeling kind of irrelevant to me at this point or rather mage carries at least.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

12-03-2012

Mage carries are suppose to scale hard with level, thus the reason why they want mid.

To answer you, most of the "tanky" mage mid has many cons. For example, Galio gets raped by ranged AP mid with autoattacks, and Morde often push his lane and open him up for getting ganked. These two champions are also not well for roaming, in which other AP mid such as Ahri or TF are much stronger at.


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Tha Dynamite

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12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarabull View Post
Best comment yet in my opinion.

I suppose a new question to ask is, do you think we will see a big change in the general meta of temp comps? Carries are feeling kind of irrelevant to me at this point or rather mage carries at least.
As an AP mid player, I disagree wholeheartedly.

First of all, the variation in damage from carries is the only thing actually preventing a full-tank meta.

Take the game I played yesterday. They picked Garen, Ez, Olaf, Soraka and Zyra. I picked Malphite. Because their Zyra got shut down, she did little damage to me. So I just stacked armor and rolled over them. By the end of the game, I had 500 armor with my W on. They couldn't even touch me.
But I had 70 MR from leveling, runes and masteries.

Say Zyra was actually strong. There is no way I can just stack armor and would need to differentiate my build to tank her damage as well. But at the same time, I can't tank as much from the AD.
The lack of tanks able to just absorb all damage indiscriminately necessitates other roles, like assassins to quickly deal with their damage dealers, or your own carry to balance out theirs.

Second of all, each role is strong in a certain stage of the game. Bruisers and tanks are strongest in early game. That is why tank teams work in lower ELO, as most games are already decided in the early game.
APs are strongest in mid game. Depending on how the game is going, mid game is in many cases the longest phase. That is the phase before 5v5 fights.

So to say that APs are irrelevant is just silly.


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powwder

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboRal View Post
Meta, team comps, and other seemingly fundamental concepts mean nothing at a certain level of play.

Why is it considered proper to have bot be duo and top be solo in the first place? Because it is advantageous to have four players capable of doing and contesting dragon, as it is the prime early and mid game objective. But if team doesn't utilities this fact, then it's rather pointless to do it.

Same thing for team comps. Why play carry and support bottom when the carry or support has no idea what they are doing? Why not just play a bruiser kill lane on bot and stomp them?
Also, for mid. Why play a squishy AP mid when you can pick,a bruiser kill laner and stomp him?

You need to know what a team comp is capable of to fully utilize the meta.

Long story short. No. Tanks are not the new meta. Utility is.
the reason why the meta is so important is because you are in a game with 4 other random people. because the meta is in place, i can join a solo queue and have a general idea of what i have to do and what others will do.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Mage carries are suppose to scale hard with level, thus the reason why they want mid.

To answer you, most of the "tanky" mage mid has many cons. For example, Galio gets raped by ranged AP mid with autoattacks, and Morde often push his lane and open him up for getting ganked. These two champions are also not well for roaming, in which other AP mid such as Ahri or TF are much stronger at.

This is why I take Teleport on Galio...And obviously, buy wards for mid-river.

Kat roamed to bottom? No problem. I'll teleport to bottom and Ulti ftw.


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