Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Do you think the future is inevitable?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

poe tay toes

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Kodoku:
Where did I assume that?


the existence of an inevitable future means that there are no other possible futures.



Quote:
I'd argue that this amounts to saying that there are many possible futures, but only one actual future, which is consistent with what I'm saying.


no, only one future becomes true, and only when it becomes the present. until then, it is undetermined. basically what you're saying is that if you stand on your roof and drop a leaf, it will land on the ground and you can't affect where it goes. i'm saying you won't know where it will land, you can alter its course and landing point (even if you don't know exactly how you'll affect them) and other factors can change its course as well. all you know is that it will land somewhere and any person walking by or opening a nearby window can change it.



Quote:
But the question of which " 'will happen' happens" is a question of what will happen, and so by your first claim, is unchangeable.


nope. the only inevitable thing is that something will happen. the what of it can change until it has happened.



Quote:
My argument did not imply or assume that there is only one possible future.


"Therefore the future is inevitable." = no possible alternatives


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rahgar

Member

12-01-2012

Does it matter?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kodoku

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
the existence of an inevitable future means that there are no other possible futures.
Not true. When you flip a coin, physics determine the result. The result is inevitable. Yet both heads and tails are possible futures.

Quote:
basically what you're saying is that if you stand on your roof and drop a leaf, it will land on the ground and you can't affect where it goes
Not true. Of course you can affect where it goes - you can swing your arm and hit the leaf, affecting it. Your actions are part of what determines the future. There are two very different things here: whether you can make it so the leaf goes somewhere other than where it will in fact go (impossible) and whether or not you can be a factor in where it goes (possible).

Quote:
nope. the only inevitable thing is that something will happen. the what of it can change until it has happened.
I don't know what this means.

Quote:
"Therefore the future is inevitable." = no possible alternatives
See coin flip example.

Quote:
Does it matter?


Not really, no. But a surprisingly large quantity of (mostly) sloppy theorizing has been done about it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bilbosky

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Fine, I'll bite. You're using circular reasoning and tossing in semantics to mix things up a bit. All you did in your post was to assert that "what will happen" and "inevitable" are identical, which they are, and then restate your premise with a different wording. Your post is still a troll, just a bit more complex than I initially thought.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kodoku

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
All you did in your post was to assert that "what will happen" and "inevitable" are identical, which they are, and then restate your premise with a different wording.


....

That's basically a summary of what a deductive argument is.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Antarctica

Senior Member

12-01-2012

I believe our existance is like a book that is still being written. It has a set beginning, middle, and end while only the specifics can be changed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jesus the Friend

Member

12-01-2012

Philosophically speaking, the past and future are only concepts in your mind.

Only reality matters.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kodoku

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Jesus the Friend:
Philosophically speaking, the past and future are only concepts in your mind.

Only reality matters.


So there was no past or future before there were minds?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jesus the Friend

Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Kodoku:
So there was no past or future before there were minds?


No, there wasn't, "time" as we know it was only measured in events.

Back before life existed, this was measured in cosmic events, like the union of particles and mass, followed by the big bang, followed by.. etc etc.

Once we came into play, we began to perceive what we know as "time".

BUT OF COURSE, this is all philosophy. Scientifically speaking, time is a universal measurement that cannot be denied.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kodoku

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Jesus the Friend:
No, there wasn't, "time" as we know it was only measured in events.

Back before life existed, this was measured in cosmic events, like the union of particles and mass, followed by the big bang, followed by.. etc etc.

Once we came into play, we began to perceive what we know as "time".

BUT OF COURSE, this is all philosophy. Scientifically speaking, time is a universal measurement that cannot be denied.


Philosophy is not another word for "rubbish nonsense", even if a lot of it happens to be that.