Why (and how) I would like to see the Nidalee lore changed.

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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytsfs View Post
Where are you getting this idea that the Pre Rune War inhabitants of the Kumungu were inferior primitives caught in the war between two more developed foreign nations? The Lore of the Rune Wars lacks detail, but we have no reason to assume that these people we not just as advanced both technologically and magically as their enemies just because they lived in a jungle, and there is nothing to indicate that they were not involved in the Rune Wars of their own volition.
I was responding to Galgus suggestions on why there might not be people in the Kumungu. I wasn't responding to any existing lore. It's true I made a big assumption based off what he said, but if Riot did put into their lore that the former inhabitants of the Kumungu were driven out by the Rune Wars... I think its an assumption that people would make (that the Kumungu people must have been "weaker" than everybody else engaged in the Rune Wars). I can't help but think that a lot of people would make those kind of inferences based on the patterns that they see in modern media.

I didn't say inferior primitives because I don't think less technologically developed people are either of those things, but I think some people might see it that way. I figure that since Ionia (the easternmost part of Runeterra) is inspired by a lot of Asian culture, Demacia (the western part) is inspired by a lot of European fuedalism, and Shurima (the desert part) is inspired by the middle-east, LoL players are going to assume that Kumungu (the jungle) is inspired by the Amazon/Congo/Southeast Asia. In which case I think it wouldn't be responsible to make those people extinct with no explanation. Especially since we do have champions from that area, but they are all animals.

Why weren't the animals driven out by the Rune Wars? The existing storyline reads to reinforce the idea of jungles as too dangerous for people, which isn't true at all. If every other part of Valoran gets to have a human population (even Zaun and Kalamanda -- which were also both probably pretty scarred from dark magics), I don't see why Kumungu doesn't get to have a human population too.


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytsfs View Post
I think the Kumungu is closer to Aztec era South America after the Spanish killed most of the population with disease than India or Africa. Except because what depopulated the Kumungu was a more localized (magical nuclear?) war, rather than a fast spreading epidemic, the people of the Kumungu likely would have become refugees and fled to neighboring nations who were less affected.
I didn't get the chance to reply to your original statement. I do think that the Kumungu is inspired by New-World rainforests too. The existence of cougars and armadillos, which only live in the Americas, is definitely not inspired by Africa or India. But there really isn't enough lore to get a good picture of where the inspiration for the Kumungu jungle came from. Probably because all the Kumungu lore we have to work with so far is based off animals. Rengar is a lion, and that is definitely an Old-World animal. I will go out on a limb - and I admit that I am making a big assumption here - and say that maybe it's because Riot wants to be able to use some of the more "exotic" animals in its video game without having to deal with some of the more "exotic" peoples. Much like the Lion King and Tarzan movies have avoided featuring Africans in their movies set in Africa. People want to set their stories in jungle settings so they get to draw all those cool animals... but they often ignore the people that live there.

That takes me back to my original statement: Nidalee's lore seems to borrow heavily from the "Great White Ape" stories, and I think those storylines themselves are a little outdated and unfair to tropical peoples.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Kassad View Post
Yes its true that there is more to the Kumungu than simply being a dangerous forested area, since Runeterra is obviously a fantasy setting. But I don't really like the idea that the Kalamandans or Noxians managed to drive the local people out. That still seems a little too easy. Before industrialism (and I don't think most of Runeterra is industrialized) tropical forest areas were some of the most densely populated places on earth.

The idea that the tropical people were wiped out as collateral damage in the wars among the more technologically advanced northerners... doesn't really rub me the right way. You would never see a fantasy world where the fuedal peoples living in a temperate area were wiped out by wars among jungle tribes. I just think that there are other ways to create international-relations in Runeterra than by off-handedly eliminating the tropical peoples.


To add on to what I have said about Kumungu, I think it is also relevant to mention that both Urtistan and the Shurima desert (more specifically Icathia) are two non-Western-inspired regions that also seem to be depopulated in the lore. So there is a pattern here. Once again I would like to reiterate that I am in no way accusing Riot of racism. They are following storytelling patterns that are nearly ubiquitous in modern media. I just think they could use the inevitable lore rewrites as a chance to be better than a lot of the eurocentric stuff out there.
You have a good point, it wouldn't make sense to have a large civilization wiped out as a complete sidenote when bitter enemies survived a sort of mutually assured destruction scenario.

Because of the aforementioned treasures, it is obvious that there was a civilization there at some point- and I don't see any good reason for them to have vanished.


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Attachment 572499

Mowgli wants to know why Nidalee's lore makes her a post-imperialist. ಠ__ಠ


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

04-19-2013

With all the new Freljord lore, I hope Riot puts an equal amount of thought into the regions, and hopefully just doesn't ignore them. The lands south of the Great Barrier deserve champions and civilizations too!


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Mutterscrawl

Senior Member

04-19-2013

I think it might be better to have her lead a group to try and populate the jungles rather than retcon one in, people tired of Noxus or Piltover or Zaun or Demacia who want to live a more natural life.


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I think it might be better to have her lead a group to try and populate the jungles rather than retcon one in, people tired of Noxus or Piltover or Zaun or Demacia who want to live a more natural life.
Characterizing the jungle to be a place that northerners go to "live a more natural life" is sort of a problematic message. And it still doesn't deal with the fact that jungles should not be portrayed as "empty" to begin with. We have internalized messages that tropical places are full of animals, not people, because that is what the media has told us. But it just categorically isn't true, and it's illogical to think of tropical areas that way.

Having Nidalee lead a group of idealists into the jungle would fit into our expectations nicely, but I think on this issue people need to have their expectations challenged, not reinforced. I want Riot to step outside of the box and show indigenous civilization, instead of erasing it or turning indigenous people into animals the way so many books, movies, and video games have done. Tropical areas aren't playgrounds for sophisticated folks, they have there own inhabitants. It would be nice to see this reflected in LoL.


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