A few honest questions for you, Riot.

First Riot Post
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Rauron

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
Heck, I do quit my games from times to times, when the game is clearly lost (not score-wise, but coordination-wise... if my team can't group up and keep on getting picked up left and right and we're 2 inhibs down, the game is over), and that I have tried multiple times to surrender to no avail. In those games, if someone is clearly griefing, I choose to leave the game before I go raging on them... having that system up would simply have me be busted by the leaverbuster very frequently (most probably).
The leaverbuster -should- catch you more often.


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Ixioran

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Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamster ov Doom View Post
This is you: "I have nothing to add to this post but I'm a red so upvote me anyway"
I don't understand some of the hostility in this thread. Judging from the rest of the thread, Damiya probably doesn't care about upvotes, only feedback.


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Charmicarmicarmicat

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Why are you assuming that it is their client, and not a compatibility issue? I have never had a problem with the air client before, just like many others.


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Shibuya Boy

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Aside from the client crashing. I like that they removed the ELO reduction from dodging and a 30 minute wait queue is good for me. Allows me to pry myself from this machine and study. >__< God forbid I go on Reddit.


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gypsylord

Champion Designer

12-02-2012
11 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixioran View Post
Thank you for the responses; I appreciate your time.

Because without a queue dodge penalty people would be dodging games like crazy whenever things didn't go their way. Does this sometimes adversely affect people who don't deserve it? Yes. This is not ideal and we work hard make sure it happens as little as possible.

1. I'm not saying eliminate it entirely. Perhaps one free dodge, over, say, a week would do justice to honest players who really do disconnect and not outright dodge when they see something they don't like?


Oh no! There was a big crash on the highway and tons of people are in need of surgery. Quick! Go round up the town dentists and get them into the operating room.

Fun story right? Also ridiculous. Most dentists can't perform open heart surgery. Similarly, the people we hire to make champions (like me) do not necessarily have the skills required to do things that ensure server stability.

It's also not like Riot is keeping me around at the expense of hiring qualified engineers. We've got the resources. Amazing engineers are just very hard to come by. Supply < Demand.


2. I feel some unwarranted disrespect here; you've misunderstood me. I'm an artist myself, and I know I can't do the kinds of things that, say, Damiya does. I don't expect Riot to take artists and move them to tech. What I meant was, why hire an artist over a software engineer in the first place when you're know you're having such issues? You answered that after your metaphor, so, moving on...

Because giving a free loss forgiven to a team with an AFK introduces exploits and incentivises bad behavior.

Got counter picked in lane while playing with friends? Pull your LAN cable. You'll lose elo but at least your buddy won't.

Support feeding and doing poorly? Ensure you don't lose ELO by yelling at him until he AFK's.


3. I think you're rather cynical when it comes to the playerbase. There are inordinate amount of toxic players, yes, but I honestly feel that the majority is honest and well intended. That being said legitimate disconnections, I would wager, are far more numerous than the conditions you described. Again, this does not have to be an extreme either. You could also allow a loss forgiven due to disconnection in X amount of instances over X amount of time as you see fit.

Again, thank you for your time.
1. That's not a bad idea at first glance. Would certainly be nice to have a "dodge forgiven" once a week to account for tech problems. Still not sure it would work. A change like this would increase the dodge rate. If you know you have a dodge forgiven you're more likely to use it when things don't go your way in champ select.

The question to ask is, "Would the benefit of this change for those who have legitimate reasons to hop out of queue be worth the increase in dodges as a whole?" I can't really answer this as I'm not Dr. Professor Scientists Magician Lyte or Research God Davin, they have superior insight into player behavior.

2. Allow me to apologize. Reading back over my post I see how the tone could be interpreted as a tad disrespectful. That was not my intent. Was just trying to provide a metaphor.

3. I'd just be hesitant to get behind something that could potentially increase the toxicity of the LoL player base by any meaningful margin. Would loss forgiven for AFK's have this effect? I'm not sure TBH. My experience playing on losing teams in other games that have systems like this tells me that it would. Lyte or Davin would probably know more.


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Ixioran

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Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmicarmicarmicat View Post
Why are you assuming that it is their client, and not a compatibility issue? I have never had a problem with the air client before, just like many others.
Ideally speaking, the client should work properly 100% of the time. I know this is unrealistic however. It may or may not be something on my end. My problem is not that the game crashes for whatever reason. My problem is that I'm punished for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
1. That's not a bad idea at first glance. Would certainly be nice to have a "dodge forgiven" once a week to account for tech problems. Still not sure it would work. A change like this would increase the dodge rate. If you know you have a dodge forgiven you're more likely to use it when things don't go your way in champ select.

The question to ask is, "Would the benefit of this change for those who have legitimate reasons to hop out of queue be worth the increase in dodges as a whole?" I can't really answer this as I'm not Dr. Professor Scientists Magician Lyte or Research God Davin, they have superior insight into player behavior.

2. Allow me to apologize. Reading back over my post I see how the tone could be interpreted as a tad disrespectful. That was not my intent. Was just trying to provide a metaphor.

3. I'd just be hesitant to get behind something that could potentially increase the toxicity of the LoL player base by any meaningful margin. Would loss forgiven for AFK's have this effect? I'm not sure TBH. Lyte or Davin would probably know more.
1. True, but the players that did use that reasoning to justify dodging would eventually stumble upon an instance where they're dodging for legitimate reasons, only to log back in and be hit with a time ban because they wasted their dodge earlier. Ideally, assuming a base level of maturity, they would think, "Damn, if only I hadn't wasted my dodge." and not do it again.

2. Thank you. No hard feelings. <3

3. Well, you are in the preseason. Now would be the time to implement any changes like this and collect data, then move forward from there. This also applies to the first suggestion I made.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to admit that I do not, in fact, rift, in case anybody was wondering. D:


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Shibuya Boy

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
I can give some insight into some of these.

Why do you even have a queue ban when you know that things like this can happen and shut players undeserving of this punishment out of the queue?
Because without a queue dodge penalty people would be dodging games like crazy whenever things didn't go their way. Does this sometimes adversely affect people who don't deserve it? Yes. This is not ideal and we work hard make sure it happens as little as possible.

Why does the time ban count for both queues?
I imagine it's an incentives thing. I'd guess players would be much more willing to dodge if they were allowed to continue playing afterwards. You're queuing for ranked and you get a team you don't like. "Oh well I'll just dodge and go play a normal." Ranked dodging is already enough of a problem as it is, this would just make it worse. It sucks spending 8 minutes picking champs only to get sent back into queue.

How do you justify dedicating large amounts of resources to developing champions with fishboobs when your game and servers are constantly having technical issues?

Oh no! There was a big crash on the highway and tons of people are in need of surgery. Quick! Go round up the town dentists and get them into the operating room.

Fun story right? Also ridiculous. Most dentists can't perform open heart surgery. Similarly, the people we hire to make champions (like me) do not necessarily have the skills required to do things that ensure server stability.

It's also not like Riot is keeping me around at the expense of hiring qualified engineers. We've got the resources. Amazing engineers are just very hard to come by. Supply < Demand.

Why is there an ELO deduction when there are one or members on any given team AFK?
Because giving a free loss forgiven to a team with an AFK introduces exploits and incentivises bad behavior.

Got counter picked in lane while playing with friends? Pull your LAN cable. You'll lose elo but at least your buddy won't.

Support feeding and doing poorly? Ensure you don't lose ELO by yelling at him until he AFK's.


After seeing your season 2 win rate on Kassadin I really have to ask...

Do you even rift?
I was actually about to gain respect for you until that last comment towards someone that contributes to the game that supports you.


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gypsylord

Champion Designer

12-02-2012
12 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Sama View Post
I was actually about to gain respect for you until that last comment towards someone that contributes to the game that supports you.
Hmmm, it seems I have been misunderstood. That comment was not directed at Ixorian.

It was directed at this charming fellow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Slayer View Post
ya ur a useless piece of shiit like the rest of the people from riot games
Perhaps I should have included the actual quote. Will edit original post for clarity.


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ploki122

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
The leaverbuster -should- catch you more often.
Technically, yes, but honestly, I don't believe that I changed the outcome of any of the games I left (heck, most of them aren't even registered as leaves because they ended so soon after I left). Worst case, if I ever end up being warned/banned from a non buster ban, I will reform... Basically, I'm not trying to grief by leaving, I'm trying to simply cool off before doing something else.. there is no point in afking/jungling/feeding/etc. for another 2-10 minutes, instead of only leaving if the game is already settled (how many games did you come back from where the opponent had about twice your cash? And how many of those in non-premades? and how many of them with no objective/towers secured yet?)


Still, why no red posts on player concepts, and why no strikeout or easy in-forum link BBcode?


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Shibuya Boy

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Hmmm, it seems I have been misunderstood. That comment was not directed at Ixorian.

It was directed at this fellow:

Perhaps I should have included the actual quote.
Oh wow. I'm sorry. I didn't realize. My mistake.

Gypsylord: Respect +1