Reporting and Tribunal system is broken for ranked games.

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SandDude

Member

11-30-2012

Well i just got banned again today which make me realize the Tribunal doesn't work for ranked games, many innocent people will get banned and a lot people that should of been banned walk off free. Here are some of my reason's for thinking why the system is unreasonable (especially for ranked games).

1). You will get reported for no reason.
For example if you are top pick and you took a role that last pick wanted or something they will just report you out of resentment. Another example is if your team have a feeder and at the end of the game you say well everyone report this guy, that guy will just report you for calling him out. All I'm saying is people that play ranked game tends to report because they didhttp://www.leagueoflegends.com/tribunaln't like someone and not because there was actual proper cause for reporting the person.

2). The summoner's code is nice, but unrealistic
I don't know how many of you have read the summoner's code but banning someone for breaking the summoner's code in a ranked game is just down right unrealistic.
Here are some of my favorite parts.

a). "Never get frustrated by an inexperienced player’s performance. At some point, you were just as green as they were, even if it was the day that you downloaded the League of Legends client. Have a little patience, and try and help the player step up to a level where both of you can enjoy the game. At the same time, don’t be discouraged if they aren’t receptive. Some small percentage of players will get hung up on the notion that they don’t need anybody’s help, and, no matter how politely you try to lend a hand, they won’t want to hear it. That’s no reason to give up on the rest of them!"

Well in ranked game the "small percentage of players" isn't so small. When was the last time that you were playing a ranked game with a newbie and they are doing bad so you say "Hey, you should probably stop feeding" or "Hey man if you would build some health that would be awesome" and they go "Wow thanks man i never thought of it that way" or "Well that was helpful"...Never. What do they always do, they just keep on doing what they were doing before and ruining the game for everyone. This happens because the "newbies" for ranked games are all level 30, and they all think they know what they are doing but they don't. It doesn't matter how nice you are it doesn't matter how much you kiss their ass most newbies in ranked just don't care.

b). And most of all, if you’re having a bad game don’t take it out on your team!

That sounds nice on paper doesn't it. But i don't know if any of you have had a game like this. Top mid bot all winning. Jungle feeds 7 kills and you lost the game. I have had many games like this, and sure sometimes i handle it poorly and probably rage against the "Game Destroyer" and sometimes i just say "Wow, you should probably go play normal". Either case the out come is always them saying "OMG, Verbal Abuse!!! BAN, BAN, BAN" rarely you get the "Sorry team i fed" the ratio is probably 10 to 1. The point is it doesn't matter what your attitude towards the bad players are if you say anything you will probably get reported the best way to handle it is just to say nothing and at the end of the game report them for feeding.

Basically it is easy to look at a tribunal case and say "well he got punished because he broke the summoner's code" even though the code is very unrealistic and it should be viewed as a guide line for players behavior and conduct but not a list of "Laws" everyone should follow. If players should follow the Code line by line or they get banned, people that don't call MIAs should start going by the dozens.

3. Language
Number one reason people get reported or punished is due to what language they use. And because ranked games are more heated more excessive language is being thrown around. Obviously no one should sit there for 10-20 minutes just raging at their team, but i see people get banned simply because they type the word **** or retarded or stupid. I mean ya i get it they are mean words, but does that really deserve a ban for a week if that happened couple times in one game out of how ever many they play??? Some people argue that League is rated teen and that kind of language shouldn't be tolerated. If that's the case i don't know why riot just turn on the language filler permanently instead of making this trap for anyone that might get little heated.

4. It is easy to report someone, It is hard to write a reason
It is easy to click two buttons to report someone you didn't like either with proper cause or not. Most of the time when i report someone i always write something, "They were feeding really bad", "This guy ragged for so long, read the chat log", or "He afked for 10 minutes lost us the game". Do you know why most of the time people report they don't write anything? Because in most case they don't have a reason, it would be something like this "Ah, well he took mid when i wanted to play mid" or "He said **** once!!!!" or "Man he was being a real dick when i fed my 10th kill i wonder why he is so mad".

5. One case can get you banned
Technically one report could get you banned. I really think that if a player was doing something bad and just down right horrible there should be at least more than one report for that one game, I don't understand how 8 cases of one teammate report you with no reasoning other than he just doesn't like you could get you banned for a week. I mean lets be honest this is the internet you can get reported for pinging twice or giving first blood most people simply don't care especially it only takes two click of a mouse button to report someone.

6. Inconsistency
I think most people that do Tribunal doesn't really try to do a good job there really is no incentive for being fair. Here is my list on what people look for when deciding on pardon or punish.
A. Numbers of games reported, It doesn't matter how many people sent in a report it doesn't matter what happened during that game if someone have a high number of games where he got a report that is most likely to be a punish. On the other hand if a player was really being really bad and just a terrible person but only does it for one he gets a pardon when he really should be punished.

B. Number of people. If someone has like 4-5 or more people reporting him on one case that is probably going to result in a ban, although most of the times this is accurate there are still cases where it should of been a pardon.

Example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5930455

Now why is this guy banned. No one should have an answer.

3. Chat log: This is where the "Responsible" judges would go to and is probably the last thing they read. Again like i said above people can be a little too sensitive. Ya sure ban the jerk that yell at people all the time rage way too much curse excessively, but can someone tell me why this guy was banned?

Example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5854089

I mean you can read the first on the reasoning of the ban but that could be a total lie in fact the guy that got banned posted about it being a lie. This guy plays the nicest game I've ever seen even when his team is bad he got reported 4 times for being frustrated with his team. This guy is (probably) totally innocent. Then there is this guy

Example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5992368

I mean ya he said **** a couple of times but is that really bad enough to be punished? i read all the chat log and this guy had 2 leavers for one game and he got reported for terrible attitude...haha i think most of us would have a bad attitude at that point. Or you can argue the fact that he is a leave. But then again look at this guy's stats does that really look like the stats of a leaver? Here is another case to be looked at

Example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5962336

I read all 5 cases 4 are bs, the only one that is bad is case 2, he ragged on Amumu for a little went afk for 2 minutes probably went and got a pizza or something. This guy gets banned. I mean yes it was not the best of this guys game but the fact that only one person reported him for that game and it is the only case out of 5 with a proper cause for a report i think he really should of been pardoned.


This one is my case from today. I'm not saying i shouldn't be banned because i did raged on MF a little in game 4 but no one is perfect.
Example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5994397
But that's my point isn't the league of legends community a little too sensitive?? People are being banned left and right for no reason and others getting banned for having one bad game or simply enough just not being well liked. Shouldn't the extreme case of banning or perma banning only apply to chronic offenders like having 3-4 games where they were just being a horrible person and actually doing something that should really be considered harassment? Instead of banning anyone that got a little frustrated during one point of the game and told his team to start ****ing focus.

Ways to Help improve this system:
1) Definitely include game type honestly i can't think of a reason for someone to rage in a normal game but in ranked i can see my self in that position.

2) Ignore cases with 1 reports. No brainier if someone is bad enough to deserve a ban more than one person is going to report that guy.

3) You have to write a comment about the report. It is way too easy to report without writing something this can reduce the amount of BS reports that just simply false.

4) Make the ranked games harder to access. Personally i don't think many people are ready for ranked games right when they hit level 30 with 16 champs because the environment is very different from a normal game. Where a normal game is way more chill the ranked games can get a little heated and i can see some people not being able to handle it. Plus this would reduce the amount of frustration for people that just run into players that are not equipped with the knowledge of playing a ranked game(especially under 1200 elo eek!).

In Conclusion: No one likes to rage for no reason, If someone is not as nice as they should be in a there is a reason, maybe you don't see it in the Tribunal but that doesn't mean the reason is not there. I hope this post starts a discussion and really start making this system better, and please leave the ignorant comments out please.


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Cuddlybearmewmew

Senior Member

11-30-2012

wait its about the tribunal? quick im gonna downvote it before even reading it.


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Jester of Sirius

Member

11-30-2012

I think there is much room for improvement with the tribunal system. For the last week most of my games have had trolls, noobs, and feeders. They play poorly and then blame you if you're doing well. I had one player in a game tonight tell me that I sucked because I had not died. I had more kills and more assists than this player and zero deaths. In another game, I was told I was a useless tank and that I was not in team fights. Well, I was in team fights, but not many. I had to watch my lane, which had two or three people trying to takedown a tower at any one time and their Jax did a good job of keeping the lane pushed.

These guys were running around the map, engaging in team fights they had no business engaging in with no hope of winning. And, yet, if you get enough of these clowns reporting you in enough games and other clowns come into tribunal and judge it then you can get banned with no appeal. That is just wrong to me.

I think we need an appeals process and I think that we need to find a way to filter bad judges out of the system as well. What happens when you have open systems like this as that you end up at the lowest common denominator.

Consider this thread. We've got one sarcastic comment that is probably in reaction to the downvotes that you got. But, to make a better point of it, notice you got the downvotes but nobody bothered to back up their downvote with any response? I've seen threads here where they just, basically, flame people and tell them they are somehow messed up for saying what they said. Yet, they fail to say why it is messed up and offer any rational counter argument. It's all about their social idealism and their appeals to authority. It's the lowest common denominator and that is what you get in the current tribunal system.


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SandDude

Member

11-30-2012

I agree with you Jester. People these days are down right just terrible my friend just told me that he go to tribunal and just click punish for anyone and that is the only way to get revenge, i have a feeling most newbies that was criticized does this all the time. Honestly the system doesn't have a common denominator i know so many of my friends that just tells me to not talk in games anymore, which is insane. This is how much the system have terrorized many players. Because if you even say anything doesn't matter if is nice or mean there will be a chance that you will get reported because trolls don't care. Then you get to the voting stage and then the trolls will troll you again. The League of Legends gaming community cannot govern it self the % of trolls greatly exceeds the amount of actually players that would actually try and have good games. I really think Riot people should actually start considering the other side of the argument and instead of posting stuff like he was a jerk here at 25:17 mark ban!!!! you should never ever be a jerk to anyone, it is purely unrealistically high standard.


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Artea

Senior Member

11-30-2012

The problem with tribunal is people arent judging matches asking "is this person worthy of a ban based on all the information ive been given", it is "do i think everyone else will click pardon or punish". Theres a huge difference, and I believe this difference causes a lot of the 'hivemind' reporting going on. Oh, he said one negative thing during that match, well he got reported for negative attitude, and he had a negative attitude for that one comment, easy punish.

Also, lets say theres someone harassing you. If you respond to them negatively (even without swearing), this can net you a ban, EVEN IF THE PERSON REPORTING YOU IS THE HARASSER. How is this logical? 1 report from 1 person in a match should NEVER make it tribunal in my opinion. It makes no sense. There are 10 witnesses to that particular game. If only 10% of them consider you reportable, why should that even make it to tribunal? Why should 1 person be able to ban your account for one game? For ONE word?

How about increasing the threshhold to make it into tribunal. If you honestly cannot convince your team that the person was toxic enough to be reported, why should 1 report matter? I don't get it. The system is too easy to troll, and it causes real consequences, especially to your bottom line RIOT.

I have been banned. I was reported in 5 games, by 1 person each game. 2 of those games I was trolled in champ select and had to fill roles I didnt want. 3 of those games I was being harassed by presumably the person on my team harassing me. 1 of those games I didn't do anything wrong and was just reported out of anger. I have played over 100 games within the time of these 5 reports, meaning I was reported by .5% of all the players I have come across.
What this basically means RIOT, is that 5 people just made you guys lose out on any future money I wouldve spent on the game (prob 20+ a month). I am no longer going to spend money on RP if I fear my account can be terminated at any time due to this broken system. The choice is yours RIOT.


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DEANGILLBERRY

Senior Member

11-30-2012

no, if someone is trolling u and its obvious to u its probably obvious to everyone else, why call them out and tell them they are reported, or ask for other people to report, its just feeding the troll.
ban is deserved.


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DEANGILLBERRY

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Op is trying too hard, posts about getting banned, does not link to his reform card.
Comes in *****ing about tribunal, posts in GD instead of the tribunal section.
Maybe he thinks it'll get more awareness here, or a red will see it.
OP tries to make a serious thread by typing a series of paragraphs to make people forget about the reform card he did not post, GD notices there is no reform link, downvotes come, op get mad at everyone who disagrees calls them trolls, no reds will post in a thread like this reguardless of how long you draw it out, then thread dies and op starts another one.


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Magister Gir

Senior Member

11-30-2012

honestly didn't read it all of it, I scrolled down to your examples read them but nothing to support them with because I can't even get the link, I can't see stuff if it doesn't exist, also the Tribunal is fair (in the most part) like I use it all the time and I make sure I read the cases, yes I'm one of those people who also ban people for saying "gg noob"/"gg easy win". I continued to scroll down though not insta down vote or upvote yet and saw you saying "newbies be butthurt" I'm just like wth really. Post your results and then I'll consider you not deserving a ban but because you didn't then you did. ALso the tribunal does take in consideration the people that don't get it right meaning say a person does nothing but punish? well their vote isn't going to be weighed as heavily as someone who's been voting and has actually gotten their past votes correctly. Meaning if I have a 100% winning case ratio to someone who has a 45% winning case ratio, my vote is more heavier than his/her.

maybe if you don't come off as a toxic player (calling other people newbies or scrubs) I might of, as well as others, take this into consideration but you seem just like every other whining jerk wad that got banned for a good reason


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Augratafier

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artea33 View Post
The problem with tribunal is people arent judging matches asking "is this person worthy of a ban based on all the information ive been given", it is "do i think everyone else will click pardon or punish". Theres a huge difference, and I believe this difference causes a lot of the 'hivemind' reporting going on. Oh, he said one negative thing during that match, well he got reported for negative attitude, and he had a negative attitude for that one comment, easy punish.

Also, lets say theres someone harassing you. If you respond to them negatively (even without swearing), this can net you a ban, EVEN IF THE PERSON REPORTING YOU IS THE HARASSER. How is this logical? 1 report from 1 person in a match should NEVER make it tribunal in my opinion. It makes no sense. There are 10 witnesses to that particular game. If only 10% of them consider you reportable, why should that even make it to tribunal? Why should 1 person be able to ban your account for one game? For ONE word?

How about increasing the threshhold to make it into tribunal. If you honestly cannot convince your team that the person was toxic enough to be reported, why should 1 report matter? I don't get it. The system is too easy to troll, and it causes real consequences, especially to your bottom line RIOT.

I have been banned. I was reported in 5 games, by 1 person each game. 2 of those games I was trolled in champ select and had to fill roles I didnt want. 3 of those games I was being harassed by presumably the person on my team harassing me. 1 of those games I didn't do anything wrong and was just reported out of anger. I have played over 100 games within the time of these 5 reports, meaning I was reported by .5% of all the players I have come across.
What this basically means RIOT, is that 5 people just made you guys lose out on any future money I wouldve spent on the game (prob 20+ a month). I am no longer going to spend money on RP if I fear my account can be terminated at any time due to this broken system. The choice is yours RIOT.
1.) That is an assumption that has never been backed up. When I did my cases today, I didn't give 2 craps what I thought people would vote. I voted based on whether I thought th person deserved punishment.

2.) It doesn't matter who reported the player. It doesn't matter how the other players were acting. A player cannot control how other people act. He can control how he acts and how he responds to things. I'm judging this player, not the other ones. If they are consistently bad, they will have their own cases.

3.) The threshold is already very high. It has been stated that you need hundreds of reports across dozens of games to get into the Tribunal the first time.

The people who have made it into the Tribunal are very much a minority, and the ones that are punished are even moreso. Most people don't have to worry about it. Only those who are consistently rude to others have any reason to worry.


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Artea

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augratafier View Post
1.) That is an assumption that has never been backed up. When I did my cases today, I didn't give 2 craps what I thought people would vote. I voted based on whether I thought th person deserved punishment.

2.) It doesn't matter who reported the player. It doesn't matter how the other players were acting. A player cannot control how other people act. He can control how he acts and how he responds to things. I'm judging this player, not the other ones. If they are consistently bad, they will have their own cases.

3.) The threshold is already very high. It has been stated that you need hundreds of reports across dozens of games to get into the Tribunal the first time.

The people who have made it into the Tribunal are very much a minority, and the ones that are punished are even moreso. Most people don't have to worry about it. Only those who are consistently rude to others have any reason to worry.
1) It's a logical assumption, especially with the new justice rating, which gives you rating based on whether or not you picked the same as everyone else. You are the minority unfortunately.

2) Of course it matters who reports the player. If I'm reported by a someone who thinks I "threw" the game by dying too many times, and reported for "feeding", then in that game I swear, Im most likely going to be banned, for a reason no one found offensive, only for being trolled by a report.

3) The threshold allows someone who is reported in ONE GAME from ONE person to end up in tribunal. There is no convincing me otherwise. "hundreds of reports" arbitrary number that you made up. "dozens of games" also made up number. Blues have also talked about 12-20% of games being reported in, and those numbers are complete bull. I see in my tribunal review 2 cases out of 20 that I have looked at so far, where it is 1 game 1 report, and ends in a WARNING, which means their first offense.


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