Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


madreds blood razor vs blade of the ruined king

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kard1nal

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Well, Kog likes it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Kard1nal:
Well, Kog likes it.

As does Nasus, Olaf, Lee Sin, Warwick and Sion. When you already have lifesteal in your kit, the % starts to make you a natural tank.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Komeiji Koishi

Senior Member

11-30-2012

With the penetration changes, BotRK is better applying all physical damage for HPtank-shredding RADCs with their armorpen, rather than having MBR countered by FoN or some other form of magic resist. And once BotRK loses its effectiveness because enemy current HP goes below a certain threshold, crits from IE begin picking up the slack from shredding anyways.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IndependentWoman

Member

11-30-2012

Madred's Bloodrazor is my favorite item in the game, and I use it in a bunch of my builds. (On-Hit Orianna and Lulu. I've shredded in PvP.) And seeing it go makes me sad. BotRK doesn't fit it for me because it does Attack Damage, as Madred's was Magic Damage, which stacked well for my builds, being they were AP casters. Needless to say, BotRK does far less damage in X Auto Attacks than Madred's.

But what seriously makes me angry is that they took out the AS, which is what makes my builds work so well, Orianna's able to do another 200 (I believe. Probably less.) damage per AA with her passive and a Mejai's Soulstealer with max stacks (160 AP, literally all I need to play any AP mid well.)

Everyone can agree that in the long run, Madred's Bloodrazor is a greater item. It's used on junglers who use AS often, and can be accessed quickly by building up from Madred's Razor. (Warwick), and scary AA champs. (Teemo)

And for those who are like "Oh I'll go look up this chicks stats", I don't play PvP often, because it's filled to the brim with people who actually care about their stats. I play bots because of the more positive amount of people, and I get to learn cool tricks with some champions too. (IE My non-kosher builds.)

And for those WITH Orianna RIGHT NOW, go ahead and play a game of (I recommend) Dominion, just build a Kitae's and 5 PD's.

TL;DR, this ruins my on-hit Orianna and Lulu builds, with me focusing heavily on Ori.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Raisu

Senior Member

11-30-2012

So, just ran some numbers...

Orianna (having the lowest AD of 90.8 at level 18, and attack speed of 1.0493)
With LW and MBR, she would take ~15 seconds (20 hits at 1.3125 attack speed) to kill a target with 3000 HP and 125 Armor / MR.

With BotRK, she would take ~21 seconds (active + 23 hits at 1.0493) to kill the same target. However, in this fight she would also heal herself for a total of ~708 HP at the end.

As the damage was somewhat similar (consistency in MBR's magic damage vs penetration benefit in BotRK's physical damage), most of the increase in time is the difference in attack speeds except that the attacker now has the ability of an active slowing effect against their target, and healing off of the damage of the passive effect plus the lifesteal effect.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fox P McCloud

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Evil polka:
Something to add to this is that the bonus damage from BotRK is able to crit and the heal is increased from that


I think you're getting two items mixed up, and your last statement just isn't correct at all.

Shiv can crit, but it deals magic damage...therefore you don't benefit from lifesteal off of this damage.

I'm almost positive BotRK's unique passive doesn't crit and doesn't benefit from lifesteal either (as there's quasi lifesteal in the unique passive); if it did crit, it would probably say in the description.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IndependentWoman

Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Raisu:
So, just ran some numbers...

Orianna (having the lowest AD of 90.8 at level 18, and attack speed of 1.0493)
With LW and MBR, she would take ~15 seconds (20 hits at 1.3125 attack speed) to kill a target with 3000 HP and 125 Armor / MR.

With BotRK, she would take ~21 seconds (active + 23 hits at 1.0493) to kill the same target. However, in this fight she would also heal herself for a total of ~708 HP at the end.


I appreciate the fact you took the time to run some numbers for a (Great) counterexample to my post, but keep in mind Orianna's quite squishy if she doesn't upgrade her E enough, (10 Armor and MR passive at level 1, +5/level) she can be decimated if a second person comes along and begins to defend his teammate, which can happen in that 6 seconds. I'll try out a build focusing an Armor and lifesteal, though. She does half of her damage in Magic, when I check the stats after games, but it's most likely thanks to Madred's. Needless to say the two builds you stated can branch off greatly from each other.

But now add the fact that Madred's is Magic Damage, and replace the LW (40% Armor penetration) with a Malady. (50% AS, bonus +20 magic damage and -MR by 6 per AA, stacks up to four.)

Edit : Why in the world did I include the part where Madred's is Magic Damage. That's like having to explain the Rexflexive property to a mathematician. It's painfully obvious and now I feel plain dumb.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Raisu

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
IndependentWoman:
but keep in mind Orianna's quite squishy if she doesn't upgrade her E enough, (10 Armor and MR passive at level 1, +5/level) she can be decimated if a second person comes along and begins to defend his teammate, which can happen in that 6 seconds. Needless to say the two builds you stated can branch off greatly from each other.

But now add the fact that Madred's is Magic Damage, and replace the LW (40% Armor penetration) with a Malady. (50% AS, bonus +20 magic damage and -MR by 6 per AA, stacks up to four.)

Edit : Why in the world did I include the part where Madred's is Magic Damage. That's like having to explain the Rexflexive property to a mathematician. It's painfully obvious and now I feel plain dumb.


I didnt choose Orianna for that because of your "On-Hit Build" usage. I chose Orianna because she has the absolute lowest base AD. Granted, now that i've looked a bit further, Annie would have been the better example, having only 6 AD more but significantly lower Attack Speed at level 18

The "builds" were strictly MBR or BotRK and LW for the pure fact that the change was due to the usage of the item in regards to Carries. Not oddball niche builds like On-Hit DPS Orianna or Hybrid DPS Ziggs, etc...

Yes, MBR worked great for on-hit builds meant to use it.
For example, Warwick, towards his 5-strike Infinite Duress (which is all Magic Damage, and with MBR gave him a 1-2 combo from Q to R to deal almost 40% of somoene's HP before resists)
or
AP Kogmaw with as MBR gave him % Max HP Damage equivalent to 400 AP being put into his Bio Arcane Barrage.

It wasn't great for the AD Carries it was intended for as an Anti-HP stack item as AD Carries would never spend mastery points, rune slots, or item slots on MPen to get a better effect out of MBR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IndependentWoman

Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Raisu:
I didnt choose Orianna for that because of your "On-Hit Build" usage. I chose Orianna because she has the absolute lowest base AD.


Oh, my bad. I only assumed, seeing two Orianna posts in a row kind of made me assume things.

But, you know, when you assume you make an ass out of you and yourself.

Edit : I keep sounding like a jackass, I'm so sorry. I was flaming myself. Please don't take this the wrong way, your information was helpful, I've already came up with some nicer builds. c:


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thracius

Junior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
IndependentWoman:
Madred's Bloodrazor is my favorite item in the game, and I use it in a bunch of my builds. (On-Hit Orianna and Lulu. I've shredded in PvP.) And seeing it go makes me sad. BotRK doesn't fit it for me because it does Attack Damage, as Madred's was Magic Damage, which stacked well for my builds, being they were AP casters. Needless to say, BotRK does far less damage in X Auto Attacks than Madred's.

But what seriously makes me angry is that they took out the AS, which is what makes my builds work so well, Orianna's able to do another 200 (I believe. Probably less.) damage per AA with her passive and a Mejai's Soulstealer with max stacks (160 AP, literally all I need to play any AP mid well.)

Everyone can agree that in the long run, Madred's Bloodrazor is a greater item. It's used on junglers who use AS often, and can be accessed quickly by building up from Madred's Razor. (Warwick), and scary AA champs. (Teemo)

And for those who are like "Oh I'll go look up this chicks stats", I don't play PvP often, because it's filled to the brim with people who actually care about their stats. I play bots because of the more positive amount of people, and I get to learn cool tricks with some champions too. (IE My non-kosher builds.)

And for those WITH Orianna RIGHT NOW, go ahead and play a game of (I recommend) Dominion, just build a Kitae's and 5 PD's.

TL;DR, this ruins my on-hit Orianna and Lulu builds, with me focusing heavily on Ori.

I agree with you here, but you have to remember that Madred's Bloodrazer was removed because it was too strong. Blade of the Ruined King is just an alternative item that fits in the same niche as Madred's Bloodrazer as a shredding item for bruisers.

With the addition of Runaan's Hurricane into the League, Madred's would be a bit too powerful, don't you think? Replacing it with BotRk(Or just BoRK because I love the way that sounds) is a way that keeps users of the Hurricane from getting overly powerful with on hit % shred, yet still is very desirable for several bruisers who enjoyed building shred/ on hit items.
The same goes for why they removed Ionic Spark and added the Statikk Shiv, with Runaan's Hurricane you could potentially proc the Ionic Spark every other hit.

Also, retaining to your comment about your lack of PvP because of your "non-Kosher Builds," you should definitively try to PvP more! Remember that there are no stats permanently recorded for normals, so who cares? Yes, you will get some no-brainers from time to time that will whine and moan, but as long as your build has a purpose behind it(i.e.Not something like AP Talon, who cannot benefit from any AP) and you're doing well then there isn't any problem(and ignoring annoying people helps too :P).

[Edit] Also, I'm pretty sure when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. :B