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madreds blood razor vs blade of the ruined king

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Bombkirby

Senior Member

11-29-2012

I dislike how it doesn't have Attack Speed. On-hit people who liked the AS (like Teemo or WW) really liked Bloodrazor. Now we have yet another bruiser item as its replacement. Not helping.


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King Roofus

Recruiter

11-30-2012

Quote:
DarkSaijin:
it takes 1 item to nerf blade of the ruined king, thornmail. then more armor. heII just building atmas impaler nerfs the blade


It took one item to ruin MBR. FoN.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
DarkSaijin:
so then what are you supposed to do against tanks if your playing with an auto attack champ? obviously you would work with your team to take them down, but there have been many of times where the adc and a tank is left after a team fight and the adc would win because of MBR regardless of having low health.

they want to "shake up" the meta, but taking out MBR will just give me more of a reason to build health/armor to nerf the blade of the ruined king, which is exactly what it is.


Do what you are doing now:
IE -> PD -> LW shred every enemy down in some seconds.

ADC don't have a big problem with tanks. Armor and HP stacking makes it harder for them to kill the enemy, but it only delays the phase in which the ADC kills everything that gets in range.
Their only weakness were Randuins and Frozen heart (AS slows). Both of these items got nerfed.

MBR was never used. 0% usage in a real game (not trolls). the standard ADC build is as good as MBR to kill down high HP targets, but at the same time better against all other targets. MBR was a dream. An illusion for ADC. A thing they didn't need cause they had it already in other items. AD + AS + Crit + Crit dmg. That is their MBR.

About BotRK:
It is way cheaper (1k gold less). It only actually loses 40% AS (worth ~1k gold).
Life steal vs Armor is nearly equal in terms of costs (Armor actually nerfed, and lifesteal is worth a tick more cause it is harder to get and has overall lower values).
The passive is actually better, cause it give so much HP back. Physical dmg means it profits from ArPen (LW or BC will increase it's dmg by a great amount).
The active is awesome.

It is a bruiser item in the first place, but can be used by an ADC, too.
The big advantage over MBR: People can buy it.


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Jaigar

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Xyltin:
Do what you are doing now:
IE -> PD -> LW shred every enemy down in some seconds.

ADC don't have a big problem with tanks. Armor and HP stacking makes it harder for them to kill the enemy, but it only delays the phase in which the ADC kills everything that gets in range.
Their only weakness were Randuins and Frozen heart (AS slows). Both of these items got nerfed.

MBR was never used. 0% usage in a real game (not trolls). the standard ADC build is as good as MBR to kill down high HP targets, but at the same time better against all other targets. MBR was a dream. An illusion for ADC. A thing they didn't need cause they had it already in other items. AD + AS + Crit + Crit dmg. That is their MBR.

About BotRK:
It is way cheaper (1k gold less). It only actually loses 40% AS (worth ~1k gold).
Life steal vs Armor is nearly equal in terms of costs (Armor actually nerfed, and lifesteal is worth a tick more cause it is harder to get and has overall lower values).
The passive is actually better, cause it give so much HP back. Physical dmg means it profits from ArPen (LW or BC will increase it's dmg by a great amount).
The active is awesome.

It is a bruiser item in the first place, but can be used by an ADC, too.
The big advantage over MBR: People can buy it.


That last line, that people can buy it, is a big thing.

A lot of item values were changed. Armor and MR is more expensive (Chain vest went from 700g and 45 armor to 720g and 40 armor), Attack speed also got hit along side easy sources of life steal.

BotRK seems like a great item for an AD caster. Sure it gives less AD than another BT, but you don't lose stacks when you die, and the active offers you a bit more burst. It seems like an item you'd get after a BT+ IE, or whatever route you'd go.


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Auhfel

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Why is doing physical damage bad? That means you can now apply your ArPen, whereas before you were getting no magic resist reduced at all.


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Leopanther

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Fox P McCloud:

My biggest issue is that it's current health, really---if this was change, I think it would be an amazing item and provide an effective alternative to blood-thirster for some ranged carries.....That said, it's current health, so the DPS of it really starts falling off. On top of this, armor is weaker in S3, but health is way stronger (namely way easier to get now in bigger quantities and considerably cheaper), which further weakens this item since it is current health.


Uh.. that argument is the opposite way you say it.
Health being cheaper, armor more costy is -benefitting- for BotRK. When enemies have more health, BotRK does more damage than on enemies on less health. While it diminishes equally the lower a enemies hp falls, it still deals overall more damage on targets with more health.
On the other side, Armor strictly reduces the damage it deals. It doesn't increase health, thus not increasing the damage BotRK can deal. Instead it reduces, as its physical damage. At the same time reducing the heal one gets back from BotRK.

Also, about the issue with dealing physical / magical damage:

Physical damage:
+ Works with Apen (good for ad bruisers/adc that build it)
- Countered by Armor (bad as there are more armor options than mr options)

Magical damage:
+ Works with Mpen (good for on-hit champs that build it)
~ Countered by MagRes (better as there are less magres options)


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Fox P McCloud

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Chyrø:
Uh.. that argument is the opposite way you say it.
Health being cheaper, armor more costy is -benefitting- for BotRK. When enemies have more health, BotRK does more damage than on enemies on less health.


Partially true---but armor being cheaper also enhances other forms of physical damage as well, so it returns to the whole cost-benefit thing compared to is nearest competitor (IMO, BT).

Quote:
While it diminishes equally the lower a enemies hp falls, it still deals overall more damage on targets with more health.


Compared to what? Blood-thirster? On a 3000 HP target, the effective DPS of this item is the same as a fully stacked thirster, but your physical abilities will be dealing considerably less damage...this is only assuming you only have one or the other; the minute you have any form of crit chance (even as low as Brawler's gloves), BT begins to pull out ahead (this is on top of BT already having superior survivability via lifesteal).


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SwiftSwrd

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Bloodrazor has always been a bruiser item it sucks as anti-tank item~


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Umbral Invoker

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Penetration is generally stronger now, and more hostile to tanky enemies (Since the flat value comes afterwards, it is stronger on higher armor enemies when you have %pen), so making it physical damage where the user has pen makes it a lot stronger than if it were magic damage.


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Evil polka

Junior Member

11-30-2012

Something to add to this is that the bonus damage from BotRK is able to crit and the heal is increased from that