[Discussion] Dominion and its Bleeding Playerbase

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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Thanks, FOODFOOD.

I mean, the biggest frustration I have is the patching cycle. I want Dominion to be detached from the two week cycle.

I know that's probably next to impossible... but the two-week cycle is a long time when I think the item changes for Dominion could use a 1-week cycle for balancing and tweaking numbers. As a community, we can provide very active and frequent feedback, and I would love to see the evolution of smaller tweaks over time. I know that sounds tight given development -> QA -> PBE -> release in one week, but I'm curious if it's an approach that could be evaluated.

Nome's 'do or die' mode statement has me thinking we need to see more change faster, and the SR patch cycle is an obstacle to maximizing the use of our time.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

11-29-2012

The changes are frustrating, but it's a good thing overall. The more attention Riot gives to Dominion the larger the player base will grow. When people see that Riot is adding items and changing things for Dominion and even TT, more people will be like "Hey, Riot actually does care about these game modes." And that's what was needed like 7 months ago, just some constant attention from Riot like we are getting now from Nome.

If Riot wants to do more, they can have major Tournament Circuits in Season 3 and better advertising for Dominion. Remember that video that was leaked that was supposed to air during the Championship of Season 2? I still really curious why that was cut.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-29-2012

@Redenbacher
That would be nice, but I think it's just wishful thinking. It would be awesome if we could be the PBE. Just put it live for a few days, see what the feedback is, then bring it back if it's too crazy.

Also, there was one thing I disagree with in your first post... I do really think the normal player likes Teemo and thinks he's fun. He's pretty much a mascot for this game. I mean - look at the GD forum. That thread about the kid that just passed away - he pretty much only played Teemo. LOTS of people love Teemo... he's just one of those champs that are easy, fun, and so darn cute. I know people joke about "deleting Teemo," but he's one of the characters keeping people playing this game.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
@Redenbacher
That would be nice, but I think it's just wishful thinking. It would be awesome if we could be the PBE. Just put it live for a few days, see what the feedback is, then bring it back if it's too crazy.

Also, there was one thing I disagree with in your first post... I do really think the normal player likes Teemo and thinks he's fun. He's pretty much a mascot for this game. I mean - look at the GD forum. That thread about the kid that just passed away - he pretty much only played Teemo. LOTS of people love Teemo... he's just one of those champs that are easy, fun, and so darn cute. I know people joke about "deleting Teemo," but he's one of the characters keeping people playing this game.
My counter argument to that is if you took Teemo's kit and gave it to Urgot... no one would play him and he would be regarded as trash... except people who enjoy having fun at their enemy's expense.

I'm no psychologist, so I could be wrong... but I think the very concept behind Teemo is just that. Watching a teammate hit a mushroom is like watching a friend stub their toe. It's funny to watch. Getting blinded isn't a very clear affliction, your champion just sits there swinging and not making any connection - it looks silly. It's amusing. The same way blind folding someone and watching them swing at a pinata is amusing.

The actual act of laying a mushroom or blinding someone with Teemo is not really 'fun' or interesting. The result of that action at the victim's expense is fun to watch. Seeing it come from a little rodent creature that is smaller than everything else in the game just adds to that amusement.

...but I don't want this to derail the intent of the thread. This is probably a discussion for GD (that will deteriorate rapidly into meaninglessness).


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smXho

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Thanks, FOODFOOD.

I mean, the biggest frustration I have is the patching cycle. I want Dominion to be detached from the two week cycle.

I know that's probably next to impossible... but the two-week cycle is a long time when I think the item changes for Dominion could use a 1-week cycle for balancing and tweaking numbers. As a community, we can provide very active and frequent feedback, and I would love to see the evolution of smaller tweaks over time. I know that sounds tight given development -> QA -> PBE -> release in one week, but I'm curious if it's an approach that could be evaluated.

Nome's 'do or die' mode statement has me thinking we need to see more change faster, and the SR patch cycle is an obstacle to maximizing the use of our time.
I kind of don't agree with your last post, because BFT has a lot of stats itself, but the slight nerf (7 less charge, 5% less CDR) looks about right. Anyway, I would imagine a lot of S3 item needs some tune down or tune up (I am worried about new defense item lacking)

Also the other point about Teemo where he is boring, I agree totally. And it reminds me of Darius somehow, due to the mechanic of that champion is to kill steal, yes kill steal is not wrong, but if you play a carry for say 10 games and got 0 kills even winning every game, it makes you feel bored!

Anyway, what you suggest above is the best


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-29-2012

A lot of item tweaking will need to be done, I think. I predict that BFT concerns are going to fade out as we play with all the new toys Xypherous' team has brought us.

I think defense items lacking is going to be a very healthy balance change for Dominion and TT alike. In my opinion, equal investment in damage and defense should cancel each other out on opponents. If you spend 10k on AD, and I spent 10k on Armor, we should be able to kill each other, coming down to skill.

Right now, if I spend 10k on armor and I'm playing a Bruiser with a gap closer against your ranged carry that spent 10k on AD (including AS, Crit, Armor Pen as appropriate) - the bruiser will probably win without contest. In my experience - your mileage may vary. I'm very excited about the defense changes. Strong offensive options encourage active play, right?


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smXho

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
A lot of item tweaking will need to be done, I think. I predict that BFT concerns are going to fade out as we play with all the new toys Xypherous' team has brought us.

I think defense items lacking is going to be a very healthy balance change for Dominion and TT alike. In my opinion, equal investment in damage and defense should cancel each other out on opponents. If you spend 10k on AD, and I spent 10k on Armor, we should be able to kill each other, coming down to skill.

Right now, if I spend 10k on armor and I'm playing a Bruiser with a gap closer against your ranged carry that spent 10k on AD (including AS, Crit, Armor Pen as appropriate) - the bruiser will probably win without contest. In my experience - your mileage may vary. I'm very excited about the defense changes. Strong offensive options encourage active play, right?
Well it does and you are right. Bruiser with tanky item are extremely strong. And I must admit I have not been playing around in pbe too much.

What my biggest concern is that AD Fiora / Yi shows up or a Twitch / Vayne from no where and is able to kill you so fast you cannot react. Right now they kill you fast, but you can at least do something if you have a little bit of armor / MR.

If we put it on numbers, I am happy overall offense item is better by say 20%, and defense item is worst by 20%, but I am worried that offense item is better by say 100%, and defense item is worst by 100% (does this make any sense?!)

Yea, offense provide very active play, but then in Dominion, there is no real passive play given how tight the game goes all the time.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-29-2012

The only thing I'm concerned about if offense becomes too powerful while nerfing defense, is that Dominion will become just a murder fest. If I want that, I'll go play ARAM (which I do, quite often).

However, in regards to attracting new players, players like that feeling of a lot of kills. Obviously they don't like dying, but they like making things go BOOM.


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Euthrosyne

Senior Member

11-29-2012

While we're on the topic of items, is anyone interested in theorycrafting what the new items will do in S3 for Dominion? Or has someone already started?


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smXho

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euthrosyne View Post
While we're on the topic of items, is anyone interested in theorycrafting what the new items will do in S3 for Dominion? Or has someone already started?
There are a few threads around doing that.

One is about PBE testing where people are playing with those items

One is called S3 itemisation

And a few others here and there.

I think FOODFOOD wants to keep this thread to how to attract more people


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