Pick Order vs Role Calling - A True Issue.

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ExjK

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamíel View Post
No walls sir its more like......flipping a light switch? Hell mozilla has an addon you can download to change your IP with a hotkey. All banning people in the current system does is hurt league in the long run. I would bet you my house my car and the contents of my retirement plan that 90% of banned people come back to torment the low lvl players.

The lowbies are the fresh life giving blood that run league now you tell me if a guy gets perma banned for being a total and complete ass clown and comes back to get back at the game by trolling his way back up the ladder destroying games for brand new players who might be turned off from the game forever.

As it stands now Riots system of dealing with troubled players is only hurting League in the long run by scaring off new players by dumped the lvl 30 refuse on them.
Well you seem to have a clear understanding of how banned people react and how the system Riot has in place is flawed...now what can they do about it? What changes to the system can they make to tighten things up? All you've told me so far is that you don't like their system of dealing with troubled players, yet that somehow justifies you being such a selfish teammate a lot of times.

Quote:
I am in no way as dangerous to leagues longevity as those people I don't swear I don't flame I don't bash I simply play by myself win my games and go on my way.
You don't have to be dangerous to the league as a whole to be toxic. Like I said before if you want to do your thing in normals, do it. The minute you queue for ranked you better be prepared to choose FOR THE TEAM and not just for you.


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Zamíel

Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExjK View Post
Well you seem to have a clear understanding of how banned people react and how the system Riot has in place is flawed...now what can they do about it? What changes to the system can they make to tighten things up? All you've told me so far is that you don't like their system of dealing with troubled players, yet that somehow justifies you being such a selfish teammate a lot of times.



You don't have to be dangerous to the league as a whole to be toxic. Like I said before if you want to do your thing in normals, do it. The minute you queue for ranked you better be prepared to choose FOR THE TEAM and not just for you.

The only ranked I play is 3s with irl friends don't go getting your panties in a twist. I play to win always I know I can get away with what I do in normals and win because Im better then my opponents I know ranked is a different mind set then normals so I adjust accordingly.



EDIT: Also there is no fix for Riots system. As it stand now the only thing Riot can do is IP/MAC banning but neither of those take more then 5 mins to get around. The fact that this game is f2p is the biggest problem when it comes to discipline. It takes 5 mins to get around your ban another 3 mins to create a new account and another 2 mins to log in and setup a name. I mean hell you don't even need a real email address to make an account I mean you could use johnnygiantwang69@hotmail.com and it will setup an account. As long as this games f2p Riot will never have a handle on the bad players it's just not possible.


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ExjK

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Bump for awareness!
Drop all the negativity and become best friends with everyone you meet! Have fun, let everyone pick their best roles and let us go for the gold, er platinum. XP


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Ext3rmin8or

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExjK View Post
People who are higher in pick order feel they get priority.
and
People who call a role feel they get priority.

Let's take a moment to look at both of these mentalities.

~ The way people rationalize their beliefs about pick order say that their ELO is higher therefore they should get the role they want (granted it's available). Doesn't matter if the last pick wants it, they are lowest ELO and are stuck with whatever the last role is (usually support). 95% of the time these people will take the role they want regardless of what anyone else on the team thinks.

~ The way people rationalize their beliefs about calling say that they know what role they are best at and feel they should get to play it (especially in ranked). Doesn't matter what the rest of the team thinks because that doesn't change the fact that they are most confident in the role they call. 95% of the time these people do not get the role they originally wanted, which leads to a troll or someone playing a role they are not confident with.

Now let's get real for a moment.

~ If you're first pick and had planned on going mid but the last pick says, "mid please it's my best role" as soon as the game opens...what do? People who believe in pick order would say, "well who cares it's not about calling" and will proceed to pick despite what last pick wants. Last pick will either deal with this and pick what is needed or complain and troll pick. In this scenario, the team who disregards what last pick wants are at fault. Why? Not because of pick order vs calling...that is not even the issue anymore...it's because the team simply does not care what the last pick wants. As a direct result of this behavior, the team is destined to fail because you've got a bunch of stubborn people playing important roles and a last pick who trolls or plays a role he sucks at (sometimes both).

I'm not saying last pick should troll the team if this happens, in fact nobody should ever troll their team. However the people who play ranked that intentionally disregard what their teammates want and pick very selfishly because "pick order > call order" are in reality...trolls themselves. No matter what you say to justify this behavior, you are trolling.

~ If you're last pick, you call a role but your team does not care and leaves you with support or a role you're not good at...what do? In some cases you may need to dodge the game (if you absolutely cannot play the role you've been left with or your team just doesn't look good). Don't fret though, dodging doesn't make you weak, actually dodging a bad game (especially one where your teammates were dicks and left you with a role you're bad at) makes you a strong teammate. In other cases you may decide to just play out the game in a role you're uncomfortable with, this is okay too. If you do bad in the game, well that's not surprising you knew you were not good at the role to begin with.

Here's where lines are gray. Some people will troll if they don't get the role they called...BAD. Don't ever resort to trolling just cause you didn't get what you wanted, fill what's needed and try your best. If you happen to do bad in the game and your team harasses you, STAY SILENT, just report them at the end. The minute you decide to react and troll/cuss back at them...is the minute you gave up all rights to report. If you happen to report anyway, just know you are directly hurting the tribunal by potentially submitting a biased case...but that's another topic.

Conclusion/TLDR.

To be quite honest, the issue is not even about pick order vs role calling anymore. The issue is that we have people who feel entitled to roles based on pick order and people who genuinely want a role because they are good at it. Trying to justify either of these mentalities is really a lost cause...people who focus on proving their side is right are wasting their efforts...really...because neither side is 100% correct.

When it comes to champ select, there are really only a few things that everyone should think about.

1. What roles do my teammates want? (Doesn't mean they will get what they call, but also doesn't mean you should disregard what they want either.)

2. What champs did the other team pick? (Everyone on your team should be engaged in this awareness, it helps for counter picking AND deciding roles. Sometimes a person who wanted mid will choose something else because they don't want to lane against the enemy mid.)

3. Will I get counter picked? (If you're going to pick a role that the enemy team has not picked yet, proceed with caution. Getting hard countered is one of the primary reasons solo/duo queue sucks, especially when people are fighting for roles instead of working with each other. The best thing to do is pick a champ that can play multiple roles then decide before the game starts OR pick a different role that won't be directly countered.)

If everyone stayed true to these 3 things, then there would be less issue in champ select. There would be less rage, less troll and most importantly...MORE WINS. Yes..more wins. More wins because you have a team that engaged in the champ select and really discussed and worked with each other when picking roles (Pick Order and Role Calling are now non-existent). More wins because your teammates will generally respect you and the team for not bickering about roles and whether pick order is priority over calling roles etc.

TLDR - As much as I dislike you TLDR people...the point I am making is that the issue is no longer whether pick order > role calling or vice versa. The issue is that we have too many selfish people playing this game who argue over which method of role distribution is right. Stop fighting over it, embrace and respect your team...work WITH them (follow the 3 points I listed above).

Ikr, I hate being last pick and having to duo mid or top with someone else -_-


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ExjK

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Awareness BUMP.


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Mamie Jeadows

Senior Member

12-30-2012

the only problem for me is, since i'm at a crappy elo, i'm forced to play support every time when 10x better at top laning, I can't carry a 1/12 jayce top, so idk, picks shouldn't be highest to lowest elo, it would be better being most wins to least, or atleast not elo because the system isn't very pure in the first month or so into playing ranked, and doing what your worst at isnt exactly the best way of getting back to a mediocre elo.


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Sedna

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

someone who has played 5 games will have higher elo than me, means nothing.


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ExjK

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamie Jeadows View Post
the only problem for me is, since i'm at a crappy elo, i'm forced to play support every time when 10x better at top laning, I can't carry a 1/12 jayce top, so idk, picks shouldn't be highest to lowest elo, it would be better being most wins to least, or atleast not elo because the system isn't very pure in the first month or so into playing ranked, and doing what your worst at isnt exactly the best way of getting back to a mediocre elo.
Trust me everyone goes through this feeling at some point or another. We can argue semantics all night and never really progress on this issue. The only way to really make a difference and improve is to simply start respecting your team and really communicate with them. You may not always get the role you want but at least, if done respectfully, you'll have a team that is very positive about each other and winning the game.

Sometimes that is more important than getting the role you wanted.


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ExjK

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seras Victoria View Post
someone who has played 5 games will have higher elo than me, means nothing.
Agreed, although many people would argue against this.


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Sedna

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

200 ranked games, 1:1 w:l < newb with 2 games ;~:

Riot really should make a new way to prioritize or something, or at least rework queues in someway to somewhat prevent this insanity =/