How to fix Elise.

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warrrrax

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-28-2012

She got a nice buff a few patches ago which definitely helped. It increased her Q ratios from 1% per 50AP to 1% per 33.
Before with 500AP, she would add 10%, which vs a 2k average foe added 200 damage. Thats equivalent to a 0.4 AP ratio.
It is now a 0.6 AP ratio equivalent (except for the fact that its off of CURRENT and MISSING health, not total health, so its usually gonna be less).

Her big problem though is that Spiderform is very lackluster and irritating. When she rappels onto someone to attack them, she will always be out of range when she lands due to a small delay. She is forced to use her Q immediately (which is supposed to be an execute) as a gapcloser and with no CC at all, the enemy will take maybe 1 autoattack total. Her spiders are busy tripping over each other and don't do anything.

Without Rylais, she cant melee or chase hardly at all. Even with, she only has 1 targeted nuke to trigger it.

Effort needs to be made to boost her spiderform engagement ability. I propose:

a) When rappeling onto enemy, add a 20% 2 sec slow effect. This could be only vs the enemy targeted by the rappel (which would make any rylais effect stronger), or a small area-effect (stronger overall effect but weakens rylais effect). This does make her more slippery when using Rappel as an escape however, which isn't intended but would be beneficial.

b) Give rappel a temporary GHOST effect (non collision) and put her right ON TOP of the enemy with spiders all around. This puts them in position to get in several attacks and not have to Q immediately.

b2) Give rappel a temporary movespeed booster for her and spiders. This gives some better chase ability and escape ability without adding any targeting effect.

c) Remove the delay from rappel and/or have her rappel BEHIND the enemy kind of like Katarina's shunpo did for a brief time. 'behind' would be defined as being on the far side of the enemy relative to her position when she rappeled, not dependent on the enemies facing. Enemies that are running would have to go around her, giving her several autoattacks.

d) Give her spiderlings collision immunity. They are small so why not? At least give collsion immunity with THEMSELVES and ELISE. This would help the positioning a lot.

d2) Give spiderlings ALL her movespeed bonus effects, including Quints, equipment, buffs etc. Right now they just get improvements off of which BOOTS she has which is kind of the lazy way of doing it.

There are several ways to do it, but just boosting ratios and damage is no longer the way to go. Her spiderform needs to be more viable and useful.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alithalor

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Elise is actually in a pretty strong spot right now. She's a lot like Jayce. Once people figure out how to play her there will be cries of OP pretty soon. Toxin also has a pretty decent range allowing you to harass most tops without trading and is decent against most Mids.

Honestly, I truely believe the reason she has lunge is to close that gap when she lands. It's on such a short CD anyway it's not like you need to save it for that all important last hit. It's there to allows you to stick to a target.

Her Spider Form is also pretty insane. With Frenzy up you can trade pretty well and come out not that much worse for wear. Obviously if you just stay in Spider and duke it out you will lose in the long run to most actual Fighters. However, if you poke, poke, poke in Human and then jump in as a Spider and slug it out with Frenzy on and then Human Stun > Bomb > Toxin you will win most trades.

Elise is really fun and hey more Buffs are always awesome, but Im pretty sure in a month or two people will realize she is almost Jayce OP right now and I don't want her being Nerfed into the ground.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hassohappa

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-28-2012

I think she is absurdly strong in lane at the moment already. She doesn't really teamfight very well so maybe that's ok, though really anyone that crushes lane as well as she can tends to get nerfed regardless of their teamfight ability (see Jayce) so I would think she will likely get nerfed rather than buffed or left alone.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Ali is right...

Elise is already really strong.

And she's probably going to be even better in S3.

She's already hit the top of a few RoG tier lists...I expect the rest to follow suite tbh...

If they do implement torch or something similar to 5s... tears are going to flow...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xxvaderxx

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
Ali is right...

Elise is already really strong.

And she's probably going to be even better in S3.

She's already hit the top of a few RoG tier lists...I expect the rest to follow suite tbh...

If they do implement torch or something similar to 5s... tears are going to flow...
From:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-li...e-season-3-era

She is 4th tear Jungling, considering she is just out and this is what she was in part designed for, that is rather lackluster.

From:
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...&range=monthly

Lowest Win Rate Champions (10/27/2012 - 11/27/2012)

Bronze rank: 2nd worst, popularity 4%
Silver rank: 6th worst, popularity 3,4%
She finally breaks out of the bottom 10 in gold rank.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hassohappa

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaderxx View Post
From:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-li...e-season-3-era

She is 4th tear Jungling, considering she is just out and this is what she was in part designed for, that is rather lackluster.

From:
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...&range=monthly

Lowest Win Rate Champions (10/27/2012 - 11/27/2012)

Bronze rank: 2nd worst, popularity 4%
Silver rank: 6th worst, popularity 3,4%
She finally breaks out of the bottom 10 in gold rank.
If someone gives you a Frisbee and tells you it's a new shovel, do you use it to dig holes or toss it back and forth (perhaps while engaged in some sort of 7v7 soccer/football hybrid)?

Also I'm not entirely sure that looking at her win rate in the lowest two tiers of elo over a period that includes a large chunk of time before her buffs really means very much.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xxvaderxx

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassohappa View Post
If someone gives you a Frisbee and tells you it's a new shovel, do you use it to dig holes or toss it back and forth (perhaps while engaged in some sort of 7v7 soccer/football hybrid)?
Given that someone is the team of devs, who handles balance and the game direction, yeah i think it is rather significant.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Elise has a high skill cap and an unusual play style. It's very easy to get yourself into trouble with her trying to "use all her skills as much as possible".

She's not a good jungler....that doesn't mean she's not a good champion...

She's proven herself very nicely as both a top and mid champion.

Look at RoG's solo tier list. She's like 4th in tier 1. That's "perma ban" tier...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hassohappa

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaderxx View Post
Given that someone is the team of devs, who handles balance and the game direction, yeah i think it is rather significant.
Type "jungler" into the champion list:

Diana
Elise
Fiddlesticks
Hecarim
Kha'Zix
Nunu
Rengar
Sejuani
Skarner
Volibear
Warwick

No Maokai. No Lee Sin. No Alistar, Amumu, Nocturne, or Nautilus. Plenty of other junglers missing from the list as well. Ezreal was supposed to be an AP champion. Twisted Fate was supposed to be AD. Sion was a melee AD. Riot doesn't necessarily foresee everything that people will do with a champion, and if a champion finds a niche that wasn't intended that doesn't mean they need to be forced into the "appropriate" role they were designed for.

Do they need to change Diana because her jungle is pretty bad? She's listed as a jungler, so she must need some buffs yeah? Rengar is not exactly the most stellar jungler either, he must as well.

I can appreciate that you expected her to be a jungler and it can be annoying buying someone thinking they are good at one thing but it turns out they're better at something else. However, that is far and away better than buying someone thinking they're good at one thing and finding out they are bad at everything.

Probably the biggest issue I take with your post is that she isn't even a bad jungler in season 3. Her first clear time is below 3:50 (Stonewall had some weird pathing stuff in his video and he cleared in 3:50 with a 3/5/22 spec, tons of other specs can make her clear faster). He finished that clear at nearly full health without using all the charges from his Crystal Flask, while a lot of junglers are finishing at much lower health with 5 pots and a better spec. Her ganks are pretty good as well. Maybe she isn't a tier 1 jungler, but if you expect Riot to release a champion that belongs in tier 1 of their intended roles every time they release a champion you're expecting them to intentionally introduce power creep into their game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xxvaderxx

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

11-28-2012

I think there is a significant difference between what players can achieve with the tools you give them and the character failing to perform at what you designed him to do. One of those is the definition of design failure.


12