Elo system is broken *proof*

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The Boss FBH

Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Alright, let me just conclude this thread and put an end to the rage

To sum it up, yes, ELO system is not perfect. However, the truth is that in a system of "Solo/Duo Queue" There will never be a perfect system due to the outliner of at least 3 other players, as well as varies factors on each player's skill level. Finally, there is the biggest thing that is currently really messing things up; the new players are starting from 1200.

Generally speaking the game will be much better if the new players start from 0 and people work their way up to higher and higher. This will be rough for new players but it ensures that majority of the players (probably 500 elo or higher) will have a more stable game play due to having people that is at their skill level in lower amount of games.

The other factor that can make the ELO system to not work as intended will be the problem or ELO booster. Everyone should know what it is and it is against the rule, but during this early in the season I doubt there are many boosters, so I will skip this.

Finally, it has been proven that the chances of getting trolls/leavers/afks is much lower on your team compare to the enemy team. But remember, this is judging out of large amount of games. So chances are, if you have 10 games played, you might have 6 trolls and 0 on the enemy team. That is totally possible. As long as you keep playing, eventually you will find more trolls on the enemy team than your team, or you will find yourself blaming everything and not improving your skill.

Conclusion: If you do have the skill to climb up in the ELO ladder, you will always go up. Maybe not in 10-20 games, but in 50-100 games. There is simply no reason for you to have any judgement on the system until you reach the amount of games that they are intended to work. With that being said, all the players here with less than 50 games shouldn't be blaming on the system just yet. After that, you will most likely just be around your true elo, or you are just lucky/ unlucky.

Note: Currently I am 8/1 at 1940 elo, due to season 2 reset putting me at 1700s (from 2200s). If I am telling you that I won all 8 games by getting carried by teammates, will you believe me? Compare to believing that the only game that I lost was due to players that is impossible to carry?

***Edit: Ping, is an issue for players but most players can still play properly. The biggest problem is the player with unstable network, which I can say that at least 50% of US internet is like that, because the ISP doesn't provide the best wiring and often overload them. However, if you are talking about foreign players, I can tell you that majority of them had gotten use to that ping. Westdoor0204, who is one of the most famous Taiwanese AP mid player, got to 2.6k in s2 (was #1 ranked in that time) with 150ping. And multiple chinese players were able to hit over 2.4k as well. I personally had went to Hong Kong for a month during season 2, and I had no problem playing at 1800s level.
One last argument that will settle it to all the none believers. Go look up starcraft 2's rating system. It is based on how well you played that game, and not purely on just wins or losses. For example say your playing with one of your friends against 2 players you dont know. Your friend struggles and ultimately makes you lose. The system will look at ALL of your stats and everything that you did that game. If you did very well but you team did not so you lost, you can still get plus rating. Now lets look at League of Legends elo system. THey based it off of a 1v1 chess rating system. But league of legends is not a 1v1 game. Its 5v5. Many of you have made great points about the chances to have a troll on your team and carrying games and blah blah blah. My biggest complaint is that if you lose, you get minus x elo. if you win you get plus x elo. No matter how well you did or hard you carried. Star Craft's customized rating system took a lot of time, brains, and probably money to come up with. But it ultimately made their game much better. This is what I want for league of legends.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

12-03-2012

League's system is too complicated compare to starcraft. For example, Rengar in WE's game backdoor and had so much pressure applied to the enemy, but that isn't shown on the stat, because that pressure is hard to show on stats. Similarly, if you are playing support, a lot of death but saving the carries are totally worth it, but once again, you don't know that unless you look at the replay.


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Footloop

Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boss FBH View Post
One last argument that will settle it to all the none believers. Go look up starcraft 2's rating system. It is based on how well you played that game, and not purely on just wins or losses. For example say your playing with one of your friends against 2 players you dont know. Your friend struggles and ultimately makes you lose. The system will look at ALL of your stats and everything that you did that game. If you did very well but you team did not so you lost, you can still get plus rating.
This is entirely incorrect. The system doesn't take into account anything you do in game, it only looks at your rating compared to your opponents'. Also if you're playing with a friend it's impossible to get a different rating, since the game rates you as a team rather than individually.

The only thing Starcraft does that LoL doesn't (as far as I know) is use a hidden 'matchmaking rating' to determine matches, while your shown rating only influences points gained/lost. And the actual effect is similar to how LoL does placements (large point swings if it thinks you're far from your 'real' rating, smaller swings once it thinks you're close to it).


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Ayame Kiyoshi

Junior Member

12-03-2012

Wouldn't everything be settled if people just agreed that your skill ( encompassing everything that is required to get a good ELO ) determines where you are placed and that sometimes, on an at least 50/50 rate, you ARE going to lose games?

Instead of writing walls of text you could have gone into customs and normals and practice to get better. Just sayin'.


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NecroCryptic

Member

12-03-2012

The Elo system is based on win/loss. I agree with you on that.
My Elo is bad and I suck compared to a lot of people. I believe my Elo should be higher, but instead of raging and crying I'm going to try to get better.


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acosn

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooltoop View Post
This is entirely incorrect. The system doesn't take into account anything you do in game, it only looks at your rating compared to your opponents'. Also if you're playing with a friend it's impossible to get a different rating, since the game rates you as a team rather than individually.

The only thing Starcraft does that LoL doesn't (as far as I know) is use a hidden 'matchmaking rating' to determine matches, while your shown rating only influences points gained/lost. And the actual effect is similar to how LoL does placements (large point swings if it thinks you're far from your 'real' rating, smaller swings once it thinks you're close to it).
This is incorrect. You can get placed poorly even if you win four of five placement matches in SC2 because you played sloppy. The placement system actually takes into account how well you play, but that's largely because you can apply those sorts of metrics to SC2.

Unfortunately there's no good way to do it in League. Characters simply have different dynamics.


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Footloop

Member

12-03-2012

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Originally Posted by acosn View Post
This is incorrect. You can get placed poorly even if you win four of five placement matches in SC2 because you played sloppy. The placement system actually takes into account how well you play, but that's largely because you can apply those sorts of metrics to SC2.
Your placement is determined by the ratings of your opponents (although I think it's also influenced by your rating on other teams in the same bracket), if you happen to lose your first match and win the next four against lower ranked people then it's possible to place poorly. Nothing you do in-game outside of winning or losing has any effect whatsoever.

e: citation: https://eu.battle.net/support/en/art...-information#2