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Mikael's Crucible's build up.

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Spellsy

Recruiter

11-27-2012

Why is crucible made out of chalice and mana crystal ? O.O

it seems to cross niches very hard. It has an active which seems like the ultimate go-to late game support item, but builds out of a niche mana item for supports ?

I get chalice when i have mana problems as support. having an upgraded chalice seems great idea because i often feel unsavory buying chalice now on live cause i could use that item to get much better use from shurelias, or something like locket.

The builds are very conflicting, If i want mana i get chalice, if i want to protect ADC i want the active. These have two very distinct and different situations. I feel like either im gonna get chalice and not even think about cruicble till late, or just buy crucible straight up late game. its not something like the current emblem of valor --> aegis, where im like "oo i can get a valor to start, keep that armor and HP regen for nice lane phase, then build that later into an aegis, and then keep that till we get into large aoe teamfights and upgrade it again!"

instead its like "oh im sona, i keep running out of mana! ill get a chalice + aegis + mercs to go tanky-sona ! .. oh i guess ill get this crucible since its late game??" or "oh its late game, i need a crucible! i guess ill buy it simply for the active"

As of my recent support games on PBE idk if its cause pbe is bad players = more kills/assists = more gold, or if its cause the new items cost less but ive been ending games with 5-6 items VERY often. I think having a high tier item like cruible built out of high cost things such as maybe a giants belt or a cotex or wardens mail or glacial shroud or something would be pretty cool - not out of a chalice .

i just imagine feeling like **** when i buy this item on alistar or something since im a "protect carry" support yet ali should never run out of mana later game lol >_<.


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Prefix

Recruiter

11-27-2012

I agree change it often I find it better to jsut go grail on most supports.


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Spellsy

Recruiter

11-27-2012

idk i think it would be cool if the chalice item built into something that rewarded high casting supports, like lulu, soraka, janna, and esp sona. maybe something like guinsoo rageblade esque where you cast more and more spells and it stacks up giving you something, even if it was just mana regen or something to synergize with the "chalice" niche.

or even something better like a cast based statikk's shiv, where after like 5 casts or something your next ally targeted spell shoots a healing wave or something. or after 5 casts the next cast is 25% quicker cd. or after casting 10 times you can active the item for a "casting frenzy" where your spells have -10% cd for next 5 sec, like a ghostblade for supports!

i think with the inclusion of like melee only and ranged only items riot wouldnt be against items which proc based on ally targeted spells ?

i understand that riot doesnt want to make oto many "passive interaction" items like auras etc., as they've been moving most support items to active items, but I think they have almost oversaturated it as often i have 4-5 activatable items at the end of a game, i think that an impactful interaction - but not active would be cool, something like a "every x times you do y" or just a "when this condition, this special interaction happens", even if it was like "you get more mana regen if you are around your teammates!"


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Spellsy

Recruiter

11-27-2012

Ive also been looking a bit more at it and I think the support items for this s3 are actually a bit oversaturated on regen, there are like 4-5 options for mana regen on supports - should have more options if you want to go heavy mr / armor for late game, or even if you want to get some early attack speed or AD for supports like lulu, nami, or even someone like taric/nunu - lots of supports these days use auto attacks very effectively in like lane scenarios - but only item is a late game luxury item in zekes.


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Jaigar

Senior Member

11-27-2012

From personal experience, I've actually run out of mana on Ali in late game from spamming E so hard.

I think its a wierd item as its active doesn't seem to match the sustain nature of the item. I actually still manage to run myself close to dry between teamfights as Nami healing my team up using this item. I also carry around crystalline flask most of the time, which its regen effects are affected by chalice.

I know a lot of people are actually excited because of this item, but personally I don't find it all that great. Its short range and long CD. Its also a rather large investment for limited combat stats. It sounds great, but your reaction to cleanse someone else will never be as fast as their reaction to cleanse themselves. Also the heal is funny on it. I find myself wanting to wait til they are low health to use it, only to find that someone has ignited the person I wanted to heal. I once did manage to get a 556 heal from it off on a Swain with Spirit Visage which saved a team fight and we won shortly after. But not many carries will have Spirit Visage.

I'm not saying that the crucible is a bad item, its just not my go-to core item.


I actually do not like the regen options all that much. Emblem of Valor, for example, changed to give 20 armor and 7 hp5 aura for only 650g, but its hard to effectively use this item. You'll want at least 1 gp10 first and probably a sight stone & vision wards, meaning you need at least 2k-2.5k gold before you can even attempt to get this item. And by then as a support, its either late in the lane phase meaning that hp5 has a minimal impact, or the game is transitioning into team fights.

On live, certain supports are too squishy and have to get HoG as their first item. Thats 835g for 200 hp. On PBE, the sightstone replaces it, but its 700g for 100 HP. That difference in support tankiness early game hurts, and I'm not sure exactly what will happen to compensate. And wow, I've really gone off on a tangent.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-27-2012

I really like Mikael's Crucible just the way that it is. If you have a super sustain healer, it just allows more of what they do best. With MR added, to boot.


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Kise

Recruiter

11-27-2012

It's much better earlier than that. You can cleanse your teammate so they don't suffer from cc hell, thereby allowing them to escape (not feed) or dish out damage without the momentary lockdown.

And there's nothing wrong with being a tanky support. You don't want to die too quickly, do you?


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