Consensus on the 3 "Spirit of" jungle items? I'm thinking 2 of the 3 need help.

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Best Mayo NA

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Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle700 View Post
Spectral Wraith is pretty interesting because it gives vision. I think its range is unlimited, will have to check that.

And the reason you would buy it I assume is so that you can make use of the Machete that you bought, instead of throwing it away.
I think you have Spirit of the Spectral Wraith confused with Twin Shadows, the support, AP, MR, and MS item that has the wraith summon active.


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ShadeOfRed

Senior Member

11-26-2012

As one person said earlier, the spirit of the spectral wraith is useful in some cases. It makes use of the increased monster damage so that the jungler can keep doing jungle, as well as it gives the ap a lot of the stats it needs. It igves Ap (admittedly, only 40, but its still respectable.... i'd think maybe slapping another 10 on there for the upgrade cost might be good.), Mana regen, spellvamp (!!!), and CDR.

The losing of the hp regen can be accounted for int he additional 8% spellvamp you get for upgrading into it, so all around its a decent core item. This way the jungler can focus more on just pure ap or defense. I think people are discounting the amount of benefit the 25% increase in damage to monsters would be on the spirit of spectral wraith item.....


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NoGoodInGoodbye

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Tbh I think all 3 of the tier 3 jungle items should give 10% CDR. The tank one should give less hp but a passive that damages the neutrals every time they hit you and scales on your defensive stats. The AP one should give +50 AP not +40 it's the best one of the 3. The AD one should give +60 damage instead of +50, it just feels so inferior to Tiamat/hydra which lets you clear fast and have lifesteal AAAAAAND it's useful out of the jungle.


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Best Mayo NA

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11-27-2012

Bump for more discussion, please.


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Exacerberus

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Honestly Spirit of the Ancient Golem is very solid and a good purchase for every tanky jungler.

Spirit of the Spectral Wraith is niche but still very good on some AP champions (Diana, Fiddle, a bit less on Amumu, and decent on those weird picks like jungle Karthus, Malz, Annie, etc), even if 5% more CDR would make it more attractive. I still feel it's an underestimated item.

Spirit of the Lizard Elder is decent on a couple of AD junglers but honestly I think that overall it's a bit underwhelming and there are so much better items for that slot that most of the time I keep the Spirit Stone till I've completed the other items (if it's a long game) and then just sell it for the last one.


Yet mind, if we talk about slot efficiency every Spirit item can't just compare with more expensive items; stat-wise even the very good SotAG it's just not as good as a Randuin's Omen for a tank, and that's fair, because it's cheaper. Still it grants Tenacity and so it allows you to happily get Ninja Tabi and Runic Bulwark quite fast, and be very all-round tanky. So overall it may be the best Spirit item because it meshes very well with other solid items and opens up for additional slot customization options.


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Best Mayo NA

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11-27-2012

^ Exactly. To put it as simply as I can, the Ancient Golem sounds like the only real useful item of the 3 new jungle items. I really don't think the other two could even remotely compare to the golem in terms of efficiency or utility.

The only reason this bothers me so much is because we already have some very niche items. I'm sure Riot would like to INCREASE item viability rather than leave some to be this niche. We already have, and I say this in an unfortunate way, items like Malady and Nashor's Tooth fitting on very few champions.


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Talisid

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11-27-2012

Blessing of the Lizard Elder is for AD junglers who don't buy attack speed or have built-in AS steroids like Pantheon, Hecarim, Garen (lol), Junglers that wouldn't want Wriggles.


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Best Mayo NA

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11-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisid View Post
Blessing of the Lizard Elder is for AD junglers who don't buy attack speed or have built-in AS steroids like Pantheon, Hecarim, Garen (lol), Junglers that wouldn't want Wriggles.
Yes, but I feel that the utility given by the Wriggle's, given that it grants a free ward, costs 800g less, has proc chances (even if you don't auto attack that much) make it pretty damn useful. And even if your jungler didn't want a Wriggle's, they may very well prefer to go along the lines of a few Doran's Blades, Phage, Brutalizer, Atma's, etc.

I find it very hard to justify the purchase of the Spirit of the Lizard Elder primarily for a "burn" that isn't THAT great as well as some extra damage to monsters only, as well as considering how much money you would have to spend (2400g, or 2100g, assuming you started Machete) considering that Junglers still don't make much money.


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Vsin

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Spectral Wraith is a mess of stats. I mean, on paper the thing is technically extremely cost effective. In practice though, the stats are just so severely spread out that you end up getting not enough of anything to make the stats worthwhile. In particular, the amount of AP given for a 2600 item that only has CDR/Spellvamp as the additional stats is absolutely pathetic.

Elder Golem is definitely the best one because it grants the stats you actually care about, cost effectively. HP/Armor/Tenacity is a great mix for defenses, and the Tenacity in particular lets you choose whatever boots you want.

Lizard Elder is...a bit confused. The concept is supposed to be AD Caster types, but:
- The number of non-mana casters vs mana ones is severely tilted towards non-mana, so you're completely wasting the MP5.
- The nature of the DoT is such that it is ONLY optimized for champions who spam an AoE ability at a consistent rate, once every ~3s. If I'm Burst AD (eg: Zed) or even Combo AD (eg: Riven) the amount of damage granted by the DoT is borderline negligible.
- Autoattack AD should never have a reason to buy it since Wriggles exists.

It's basically a wad of 50 AD for 2400, which is a complete ripoff (BF Sword is 1550 for 45 AD).


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsin View Post
It's basically a wad of 50 AD for 2400, which is a complete ripoff (BF Sword is 1550 for 45 AD).
Its not basically 50 AD at all. If you convert the true damage into an equivalent AD you get somewhere between 81 and 121. It all depends on how much armor you are ignoring. From that point of view, this is an AD item that gives +171 AD.