Shen as a DPS, why is it working?

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EchoRex

Senior Member

10-02-2010

Here's the deal. I decided I was going to just say the hell with it one round and play a DPS/Support type build with Shen instead of the normal Mundo or Xin as my pre-made's Sturdy MDPS champ

Then promptly went 12/4/14. Without any practice as this build. Was only not involved in three kills by the team.

Ok, whatever, fluke, other team was terrible, blah blah blah.

Second go with it: 16/3/8. Was not involved with two of the team's kills.

So there I sit just laughing, wondering why is this working. I was getting from my team everything ranging from I was just just KSing after taunting to Shen's passive is bugged with Trinity Force producing too much damage.

Which made me wonder even more the WHY of how this build was dominating those games.

Here's the build I used:
Start: Amp Tome and HP Pot.
Sheen
BoSpeed
Phage
Mercs
Chain Vest
Trinity Force
Negatron
Atma's
Brutalizer
If either game had lasted long enough would have taken the Force of Nature.

ArPen Marks, ERegen Seals/Quints, MResist/Level Glyphs with 12/9/9 Masteries. Ghost/Ignite.

Would either Ghost/Dash in or Ult into the middle of a fight, but the combination of Shen's passive and Trinity Force procs was laying down an absolute beating, using Vorpals and Feints to keep TrinForce procs rolling against towers and champions. That is the entirety of the playstyle those games.

BUT on paper, this build looks like absolute ass for being combat effective.

So here's the question: So am I experiencing just a disconnect in my head over what works for Shen, or what?

I really can't quite get a grip on the WHY of this build working so well for getting kills other than the spammability keeping TrinForce procs going.


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BrioCloud

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Senior Member

10-02-2010

Cool, I play Shen a lot. Just wanted to ask what ELo you're in though? I definitely wanted to look for a way to have more DPS in certain situations, maybe I can just use 1 or 2 items from your build to do that.

Then again I looked at your build and it wasn't purely offensive. It works because of the Sheen and Trinity Force procs. With Ki strike + Vorpal blade, every one of your attacks are buffed in some way.


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

10-02-2010

Because Shen has naturally high burst dps from vorpal blade and ki strike while keeping some survivability, because yknow, while most dps get raped by magic, shen can just taunt and you can,t cast spells while taunted.


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Nihles

Senior Member

10-02-2010

I agree, it seems that like most dps champs he has a distance closing skill and can negate the initial focus damage that most carries have to find a way to deal with. I always hate the idea of DPS shen but if you have other tanks it can be a good way to throw your enemies for a loop. Heck, I might give it a shot sometime soon.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

10-02-2010

@Brio: on my 5v5 tagged name we're at 1676, which was the one we were using this at, should have tossed that on there.

It isn't High, but it isn't the sub-1500 cesspool that anything works in either.

I get the Ki Strike/TrinForce proc synergy, but it was the continuous DPS that was throwing me and my teammates that the build produces, on paper/in theory it just shouldn't be all that effective, but it is.

@Nihles: We generally always have a Amumu, Rammus, or Morgana as our tank, this is definitely not for those people who have Shen as their primary tank champion.

It is a sneaking sensation that this is more along the lines of being THE way to play the champion, rather than the tanked out or AP'd out methods that have been so prevalent.


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Fuyuzora

Member

10-03-2010

Mercs
Trinity Force
Negatron -> Force of Nature
Atma's
Brutalizer

The reason this works so well for you is, as other people have said, Shen has incredible damage with vorpal blade and ki strike. I have gone just as high in kills, if a slightly few (like 2-4) more deaths without building any kind of dmg. This simply has to do with how he has a great self-heal (through vorpal blade), and an awesome damage absorbing skill.

Most of it is that people simply underestimate how high Shen's damage output is. Early game, he can solo nearly anyone. Mid game, a good tower will let him 2v1. Late game, he should be nearly immortal. This is, however, considering you're going a tank build.

With DPS, and the build you're going, Shen has greatly increased damage output, making it so that he can get even more damage. Its already high as it is. You're just making it even more effective on the squishies.


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bookss

Member

10-03-2010

people felt guilty about targeting shen first?


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VespaVictim

Member

10-03-2010

Hrm, going through these builds is certainly interesting.

It's true Shen gets very good damage just from the nature of Vorpal Blade and Ki Strike, but I think building into Trinity Force or getting an early Brutalizer would be a bit of a mistake. You can always rune and master for some decent armor penetration and cooldown reduction (In Brutalizer's case) and Trinity Force is very pricey for a lot of stats that might not find as much use on Shen.

I think, in comparison, I would try stacking HP to some degree, to get the most out of Atma's and his Ki Strike passive. Instead of building towards Trinity Force, I would build a Sheen, and keep it as is. You only do 100% base instead of 150%, but there's far less wasted stats in exchange for your slightly less burst.

With the saved money from not making Trinity Force, I would build Frozen Mallet instead. It gives a bit of attack damage, a constant slow for team utility, and 700 health towards your passive.

The build I seem to like a lot from random theorycrafting is (in no particular order):

Merc's Treads
Sheen
Frozen Mallet
Atma's Impaler
Aegis

Prior to runes or masteries, it gives you 165 Armor and 94 Magic Resist at level 18, along with 2928 HP.

If Leaguecraft is to be trusted, it also gives +87 damage, only 3 below your build (Including Force of Nature).

It's also 1500g or so gold cheaper (Final build of mine comes to 10040)


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EchoRex

Senior Member

10-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by bookss View Post
people felt guilty about targeting shen first?
I think this may have something to do with it. People aren't really willing to consider Shen without AP as a damage producer. They get taunted, then immediately retarget to get CC on the people who they think of as a threat.


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PwnSword

Member

10-03-2010

here is my shen build.
heart of gold
boots
sheen
aegis
upgrade heart to randuin
merc
hp item of choice (i like mallet)
atma's

armor pen is not useful as vorpal and ki do magic damage not sure about sheen.

9/21/0 masteries with improved cleanse (less reliance on merc) and then either teleport or ghost . tp + taunt can let you surprise gank or catch a runner across the map.

sheen helps with that extra damge so you are still a threat late game . just remember to be efficient .taunt then auto wait 1 second then feint then auto wait then vorpal then auto . and dont forget to use your randuin active .

i should mention i use t3 runes for health . quints flat and hp/18 seals . overal just under 300 extra hp.

without masteries this puts met at 3500 hp 255 armor 94 mr (masteries will take this to 100) so 2.5 sec on randuin 200 damage attack, atmas adds 70 damage as well so 270 now does atmas work with sheen? good thing to test. either 470 on sheen proc or 540 if they combine. ki strike adds 3.5% of health so 120 + 200 + 70 = 392 on ki strike with out sheen proc. 590 on a ki strike + sheen proc on base damage only and lastly if sheen works with atmas (i doubt it does) 540 + 120 = 660 damage plus 250 from vorpal. doesn't seem to bad. upfront you coud open for 400 phys + 70 (is atmas phys or magic?) +120 ki magic +250 vorpal magic = 840 before resists. one post stated atmas adds to your base damage, if true then we are talking 590 + 120 + 250 = 960 from your first auto after a taunt and a vorpal attack.

yes i was bored.


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