Dota 2 or LoL?

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Joepogi

Member

12-04-2012

They look the same now


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CondaMagoo

Senior Member

01-09-2013

dota2 is designed around counterpicks. 'Hard Counters' is the way the game is designed. You've got a bunch of champs to choose from and balance is 100% rock-paper-scissors-x-x-x-based. If your enemy chooses a certain champion, then your champion choice is based 100% on countering that champ. LoL is not like this in 90% of instances. You amy find some counters are stronger versus others, but it's not an 'everything is a hard-counter' situation as with Dota.


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fiercecow

Junior Member

01-09-2013

LoL is more like a fighting game. Champions have lots of spammy, low mana cost skillshots that you're aiming or dodging. Almost every champion is capable of holding their own in 1v1 situations as long as they're not horribly underfarmed/underlevelled. Generally homogenous skill effects and skill ranges means that you're rarely in a situation where you can't fight back.

Dota2 is more like a game of ambushes. Heroes have more specialized skillsets and roles. The difference in power between a hero who in a situation where they shine and a hero in a disadvantageous situation is huge. For example, if I'm playing Warlock and run into an enemy hero by myself in the jungle, I pretty much have to just turn around and run away or attempt to juke because I have no 1v1 abilities. However, in a big teamfight I'm a boss because I have tons of huge AoEs.

In my own experience playing both games, I enjoy LoL a lot more than Dota2 when I'm soloqueueing. The fact that champions are all better generalists means that I'm less reliant on my teammates and as a result I don't rage as much as when I soloqueue Dota2. There's always the hope that if you get your items up fast enough you'll be able to singlehandedly carry the game no matter how bad your teammates are. However, when I'm playing with friends I enjoy Dota2 more than LoL. The more specialized and varied heroes can lead to some really cool synergies if your team is well-coordinated and trust each other. Also, because Dota2 is less snowbally than LoL, I find that it's easier to keep up team morale when you're playing with people you know.

As far as spectating the games go, I find professional Dota2 a lot more interesting than professional LoL. Mostly due to the bigger variety in team strategies and laning configurations.

TL;DR
LoL is funner when you're playing by yourself, Dota2 is funner with an organized team.


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wwong3

Member

01-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CondaMagoo View Post
dota2 is designed around counterpicks. 'Hard Counters' is the way the game is designed. You've got a bunch of champs to choose from and balance is 100% rock-paper-scissors-x-x-x-based. If your enemy chooses a certain champion, then your champion choice is based 100% on countering that champ. LoL is not like this in 90% of instances. You amy find some counters are stronger versus others, but it's not an 'everything is a hard-counter' situation as with Dota.
1. Teleport scrolls exist
2. I'm assuming this ends after lane phase ends?
3. You sort of decide when lane phase ends... :/
4. You seem to have trouble grasping that strategy exists... and roles, and objectives... I don't blame you though since LoL is essentially a game based entirely off the single goal of teamclashes. By this I mean if team A's teamcompo has a goal, while team B's only goal is to win the lane phase by counter picking... I'm not sure team B is going to win because they are incapable of doing anything but winning the lane phase. Also, teleport scrolls exist.
5. Yea... turns out lane switching, tri-lane, duel mid, don't seem like possible lane options for LoL... guess what though? :]

I don't see the problem here?
On top of that, there seems to be this notion of items in DotA that doesn't exist in LoL. Like seriously, hear me out. In LoL you build up by buying power. In DotA you build up toward a specific role. By modifying what role you have, you can change basically what your capabilities are, and what were we talking about again? Oh right, hard counters... You might want to check the shop for something other than damage.

Finally you do know that denying exists for those who have been countered right? You don't have to walk up and fight to the death you know? This is assuming you have no friends who que with you. Your pub que refuses to switch lanes by teleporting. You refuse to buy anything BUT power. And on top of all that you're picking an AD carry, just like the rest of your team. Like I don't see how you can be hard countered in DotA when it's not even blind pick... Are you confused or something? All your heroes are unlocked as well.



By the way, fiercecow. I agree totally.


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LukaTheTrickster

Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CondaMagoo View Post
dota2 is designed around counterpicks. 'Hard Counters' is the way the game is designed. You've got a bunch of champs to choose from and balance is 100% rock-paper-scissors-x-x-x-based. If your enemy chooses a certain champion, then your champion choice is based 100% on countering that champ. LoL is not like this in 90% of instances. You amy find some counters are stronger versus others, but it's not an 'everything is a hard-counter' situation as with Dota.
this is so untrue its not at all designed around counter picking only also 90% of the time its not like that in LoL is also untrue counter-picks are VERY important its even if anything they both have a good amount of counter-picking in them not everything is counter pick in Dota for example Luna counters Phantom lancer clones because bouncing blade but her ult is countered by Phantom lancer clones because the random hit effect of her ult will be wasted on clones be educated about the topic before you post


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lmidorifeed

Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox P McCloud View Post
This is true, but there are engine limitations on WC3 DotA that don't exist in DotA2.

This results in a few subtle differences and makes some heroes in WC3 DotA mediocre, while making them perfectly viable in DotA2 (the opposite happens as well).

Here's an example--Bounty Hunter has a skill called Jinada that gives you a guaranteed critical hit every few seconds (leveling it decreases the CD and increases the critical damage).

There's also an item called "Shadow Blade" that cloaks you and gives you increased MS--when you break stealth with an auto-attack from it, it gives you 150 bonus damage.

in WC3 DotA Jinada will not amplify Shadow Blade's 150 bonus damage...why? Due to the way Shadow Blade is coded, the only way to get that 150 bonus damage was to create a type of critical hit...therefore Jinada will not amplify it. That said, in DotA2, this limitation doesn't exist so Shadow Blade's 150 bonus damage can be amplified by Jinada (or any critical strike, really).

That said, on the whole balance between the two games is very largely the same.

why would you buy a shadow blade on bounty hunter


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Katsuni

Senior Member

03-21-2013

DotA2:
All heroes are free
Makes you look "hard core"
Speech in game
Able to kick allies from your games
Able to 1v5 an entire enemy team if fed
No mage scaling

Note that I didn't actually say these were pros, just that they exist =P Honestly, from a game dev's PoV, they're actually all pretty bad.

All heroes are free - This sounds like a great selling point! In actuality, considering how high the bar of entry is to new players, it's actually a bad thing. There's too much stuff thrown in your face at one time. Actually giving players a smaller amount to consider at a time, and gradually easing them into the game, then making them only pick champions they particularly like playing, ensures they stick to ones they're better at, and encourages them to learn the game and characters in it better, meaning LoL's actually at the advantage here for NOT having free champions. Go figure!

Makes you look "hard core" - DotA2's got a pretty strong emphasis on being "hard". The thing is, "hard" is really a subjective term. Look back to the days of Vanilla WoW; people thought it was "hardcore!" to do things like molten core! Where... you could have 10-15 of your players afk'ing through it. It was also "hardcore!" to grind for hours and hours on end for a single item, despite that it wasn't actually difficult, just tedious and boring. DotA2 does this in much the same way; killing your own minions is "hardcore!' in about the same manner, it's not really difficult, it's just annoying and detracts from game play. It means instead of fighting your enemy, you're spending more time fighting your own allies, which is kind of flat out pants on head retarded. Snowballing off 1-2 kills to a win isn't "hard" either, it's less about strategy, team work or skill, than it is just "who makes the first mistake".

Speech in game - There's a reason that LoL doesn't have in-game speech. It's kind of the same reason that WoW used to have all players able to talk with each other, and then removed it immediately in beta by instituting languages so that alliance and horde players couldn't communicate. As soon as you throw two players on arbitrarily decided teams, and then tell them to fight each other in PvP, they will hate each other's guts for absolutely zero reason, and nothing they say to each other will be productive or even really matter. In a team game, where people tend to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions, it goes further to mean that even their own allies will just get yelled at. Yes, chatting over skype/mumble/vent/etc is faster, and for any coordinated team who is unlikely to fight with each other, that's a valid option. For players who are randomly assigned to each other, however, it's just as well that you only have to see them spamming text whining about how you suck (when they're the ones who screwed up), rather than listen to them yelling in your ear for realsies.

Able to kick allies from your games - yay! A way to get rid of all those trolls! Wait... doesn't this mean the trolls can just kick you instead? Yeah. Yeah, it does. The incidence rate of abuse of power of this kind is higher than the rate of usefulness. It's not in LoL for a reason =P

Able to 1v5 an entire enemy team if fed - Some players just want to feel awesome and badass! Taking on the whole enemy team by themselves is awesome! That's how you carry! Unfortunately, it also means why are you even playing a team game in the first place? Seriously, there's no reason to have the rest of your team if you can 1v5 the enemy team =P Hence, why LoL does not have this as a "feature".

No mage scaling - This is used in DotA2 to enforce that mages are powerful early game, and melee are powerful late game. A nice concept, but this hard-coded enforcement essentially just ends up meaning that mages don't really get much benefit out of itemization, making them kind of useless after about level 11 in many cases. Once the enemy can eat your entire combo, and ignore the effects, you're kinda dead weight. Oh, and the CC effects you had that were your only claim to being valuable past that point are gone, because of the BKB rendering the enemy immune to CC, so you may as well not even bother showing up to the party.



Overall, LoL is the better game, in terms of design. However, if you really just want to get one kill early game, snowball hard, and kill the entire enemy team solo and play the game as if it were a single player game with bots, then DotA2 is superiour to LoL.

For actual strategy, coordination, and team-based play, LoL kinda trounces DotA2 without much effort.

They're not really "better" than one another, they just have a very different focus.

DotA2 is aimed towards "hardcore!" players who just want to 1v5 an enemy team. LoL caters towards team play and coordination. Which one you prefer more will be based almost entirely on which your preference is.

From a developer's perspective, LoL is hands down better, but DotA2 caters to a very specific niche of player that LoL simply doesn't have any desire to cater to, and as such, their player bases don't really mix and mingle all that much =P


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Jesus thy Lord

Senior Member

03-21-2013

^ GOOD LORD.

The return of Katsuni.


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stillnotCampir

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
No mage scaling - This is used in DotA2 to enforce that mages are powerful early game, and melee are powerful late game. A nice concept, but this hard-coded enforcement essentially just ends up meaning that mages don't really get much benefit out of itemization, making them kind of useless after about level 11 in many cases. Once the enemy can eat your entire combo, and ignore the effects, you're kinda dead weight. Oh, and the CC effects you had that were your only claim to being valuable past that point are gone, because of the BKB rendering the enemy immune to CC, so you may as well not even bother showing up to the party.

This paragraph is more or less entirely incorrect.


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Jesus thy Lord

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpir View Post
This paragraph is more or less entirely incorrect.
I've always been in strong disagreement with that philosophy in DotA all stars, Dota 2 and HoN.

All three games have an adaptation of Demon Witch (I.e. Lion/Witch Slayer) and the character has mediocre burst, even after 6. But the disables are invaluable at every stage of the game because, his single target polymorph is instant and will prevent activation of Magic Immunity for its duration, and can be followed up with his stun.

If you purchase a Force Staff/Tablet of Command, you can be useful even if the enemy has immunity by driving away allied targets being focused or chased.
Etc etc.

Less damage yes.
But more utility.
Always useful.