If you have Revive sometimes dying is better than backing

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Drakylon

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Another scenario:

Someone's backcapping your mid/bot, and you're close to the enemy fountain. It's faster to fountain suicide, revive, and stop the backcapper than to back and then run up to your point.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Revive is probably going to drop the speed boost in S3 anyways due to the new boots, and the hp boost will probably become the new spec.
Actually, Revive is gaining the speed boost as part of the spell, and the health boost is getting moved to the improved summoners, which in turn is getting moved to the utility tree.
Thankfully, the 9th point in defense is pretty ****, so hooray for 21/8/1!

Also, Homeguard boot enchantment will be disabled in Dominion because OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakylon View Post
Another scenario:

Someone's backcapping your mid/bot, and you're close to the enemy fountain. It's faster to fountain suicide, revive, and stop the backcapper than to back and then run up to your point.
But faster by how much?

It only takes 4 seconds to back, and even if you were standing right outside of the enemy fountain it should take at least that much to reach the "death zone" and more to actually DIE, because the fountain lasers in Dom take a little while to work their magic.

Imo it would probably be faster to just B in most scenarios than to suicide by fountain and burn your revive to defend.


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Drakylon

Senior Member

11-23-2012

@^
Thing is, Revive's speed boost makes running to the point extremely fast. Let's say the time it takes to walk to the enemy fountain = the time it takes to get to your point (reasonable); fountainciding thus shaves off the 4 seconds of recall.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
shouldn't use Cleanse prematurely for the CC reduction
I can't possibly think of a reason you'd ever want to pre-Cleanse. Hmm. Should I cleanse now so I can have CC reduction or wait till the first CC so I clear that out AND get CC reduction?


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Sauron

Senior Member

11-23-2012

The situations for using Cleanse pre-CC are clutch and unlikely, the most likely ones would be to remove Ignite right away, or to get rid of certain AS debuffs which are erroneously removed by Cleanse (AS debuffing is not a CC). But, I was really just using it as an example.


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chide da jungler

Senior Member

11-24-2012

the topic is proof that your argument is invalid.

if something is only good "sometimes" then that implies that a choice can be made which will or will not effect the game positively, or, in lay term, it opens the door for strategy.

this is the very nature of pvp and thus your argument supports the inclusion of revive in dominion


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ShawNuff

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Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Your argument is a bit flawed. That's like saying you shouldn't play bait with Flash or Exhaust, or shouldn't use Cleanse prematurely for the CC reduction, or shouldn't wait for allies to be hurt before using Heal. All spells have variance in their usage, even the binary ones. There are penalties to getting yourself killed intentionally. They are not always immediate and are often ignored, which is the fault of the player.

Removing Revive and doing nothing about Garrison would make only about 20 champions viable in Dominion. 3 supports 1 aoe cc and 10 Garrisons, with double Maokais in bot lane every game. Pushing would be wrong, skirmishing would be wrong, and killing would be pointless, if even possible. First team to win the windmill fight would hold 3-2 for 10 minutes or more. Revive is basically what keeps the turtle-fest meta at bay.

Revive is probably going to drop the speed boost in S3 anyways due to the new boots, and the hp boost will probably become the new spec.



The only situation as Karthus where you actually want to die is in a team fight when you're completely out of mana, low on health, W is close to coming off CD and 1 or 2 enemies might escape the fight with very little health. Of course, you were probably joking.

What if Revive and Garrison were both removed. I feel the the majority of the time, Garrison is used to

1.) Temporarily bail yourself out of bot lane when you are losing
2.) Turtle (see 1)
3.) Cancel the Enemy's Garrison
4.) Making a dive easier

Out of those, only #4 is really interesting gameplay. The team with 3 or more points is already has an incentive to turtle because they will win the game if nothing happens for the rest of the match. #2 would be more compelling if it could be demonstrated that the game rubber-bands too quickly and that it is overly difficult for the winning team to hold an advantage that they earn for a reasonable amount of time.

But to me, it seems that Garrison tends to benefit the team with an advantage most of the time.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Yeah, and then remove Exhaust because everyone would be taking that if Revive and Garrison were gone. Remove Clarity, too, since it's a noob trap. Surge and Promote are already going away. That way people can pick between Ignite, Heal, Barrier, Cleanse, Flash, Ghost, and maybe the occasional Clairvoyance. Actually, you'd probably see 8 or more Barriers a game, so drop that, too.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

11-24-2012

The counterbalance to revive is the long ass cooldown, which means you basically have 1 summoner spell for combat purposes for the entire game. If removing revive causes a problem in that people are running around with 2 must-have combat summoners such as exhaust/flash/ignite/garrison, then the problem is summoner spells in general.

-tldr remove summoner spells so I can enjoy summoner's rift again. I can see why people smurf.

Quote:
Yeah, and then remove Exhaust because everyone would be taking that if Revive and Garrison were gone. Remove Clarity, too, since it's a noob trap. Surge and Promote are already going away. That way people can pick between Ignite, Heal, Barrier, Cleanse, Flash, Ghost, and maybe the occasional Clairvoyance. Actually, you'd probably see 8 or more Barriers a game, so drop that, too.
I unironically agree with this, even though you were probably being sarcastic.


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