Item Request: Damage-Oriented Wooglet's alternative

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Galgus

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
If you can go all game without getting focused, I don't think you really need more offense cause you're going to win anyway.
The inevitable terrible situation will inevitably happen- like being in a 1v3 as the only one defending a point- but for Veigar, Wooglets really won't make a difference in those scenarios.

Don't get me wrong- I don't want Wooglets removed- I just don't want to be pigeonholed into throwing gold away on survivability when I don't need it.


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GET REKT FGT

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
The inevitable terrible situation will inevitably happen- like being in a 1v3 as the only one defending a point- but for Veigar, Wooglets really won't make a difference in those scenarios.

Don't get me wrong- I don't want Wooglets removed- I just don't want to be pigeonholed into throwing gold away on survivability when I don't need it.
So how will "Hat of Tons of Damage" help you? With CC you'd still be squishy, and pop faster than a balloon in a needle orgy. You'd still be delaying CDR if you rushed it, and you'd be weaker in the long run for building such a costly item (hence the reason Rabadon's and the Zhonya's Hourglass was removed in the first place)

Also, adding in an overpowered active doesn't "help" burst mages...it just makes them overpowered. Have you thought about the damage output on such an item?

Overall the item is flat out ridiculous and you should probably rethink what you're even asking for.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

I agree that getting CDR at a reasonable time means delaying Wooglets and the item I suggest.

I would be squishy, but would have more damage to do Veigar's job- the highest single target burst damage in the game- used to turn a 4v4 top fight into a 4v3 quickly.

Veigar doesn't build survivability to tank damage, he stuns or kills his enemies to keep them from damaging him in the first place.

I admit that I may have messed up on the active and the pricing, but I still defend the core idea- an item dedicated fully to damage as an alternative to Wooglets.

(Aside any balance issues, the item would be bad for a skillshot spamming Lux or Nidalee, who it should be good for.)

Apologies on the item name, its pure filler.


I already know that you want mages forced into getting Wooglets, but how would you design an alternative?

Would a more simple approach like increasing the AP and/or bonus AP per cost above that of Rabbadon's Deathcap be preferable?


I am not against a mage wanting survivability picking up a Wooglets over the alternative, I just want to expand item choice.


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11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
I agree that getting CDR at a reasonable time means delaying Wooglets and the item I suggest.

I would be squishy, but would have more damage to do Veigar's job- the highest single target burst damage in the game- used to turn a 4v4 top fight into a 4v3 quickly.

Veigar doesn't build survivability to tank damage, he stuns or kills his enemies to keep them from damaging him in the first place.

I admit that I may have messed up on the active and the pricing, but I still defend the core idea- an item dedicated fully to damage as an alternative to Wooglets.

(Aside any balance issues, the item would be bad for a skillshot spamming Lux or Nidalee, who it should be good for.)

Apologies on the item name, its pure filler.


I already know that you want mages forced into getting Wooglets, but how would you design an alternative?

Would a more simple approach like increasing the AP and/or bonus AP per cost above that of Rabbadon's Deathcap be preferable?


I am not against a mage wanting survivability picking up a Wooglets over the alternative, I just want to expand item choice.
And assuming the team jukes his stun, which is very easy to do, all the burst in the world won't mean anything on a burst mage if said mage was dead. Take your pick at any mage.

Secondly, Void Staff provided more damage back then than Rabadon's did, especially if your enemy team was smart enough to "build survivability" a.k.a. build Magic Resist against such a champ you're using as an example.

The item isn't bad for a Lux or Nidalee either. Assuming the person playing Lux or Nid were skilled enough, they'd know that survivability far outweighs the ability to do more damage at once... the difference between being able to front-load a lot of damage and doing less but being alive to do more, or staying alive long enough for teammates to come to your aid, is substantial and heavily favors Wooglet's itemization.

Still, you aren't really putting up a reasonable argument for an item such as what you're suggesting. If you want to build glass and be able to do damage, there's many options available to you, at a much cheaper cost and still provides everything you're looking for (including Wooglet's...at the lost of all of about 50-60 ability power by itself, or simply 5% from the original Rabadon's)

Also, you're getting more item choices soon...are you really expanding "item choice" or simply looking for an item specific to the champs you play? Mind you I play burst mages so you really have to prove your point as to why you would need an item such as this in the game?


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Galgus

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11-22-2012

@ Ekis:

Juke an instant stun?

At that point its just Veigar's lack of skill.

Besides, the stun has a somewhat massive range, and Veigar should be comfortably outside of most champion's engagement range even if he misses it.

(Though if he got in range for his Q and R its another story.)


I'm not here to defend old Rabadon's on Dominion, only to suggest a Wooglets alternative.


I used Lux and Nidalee as examples due to their ability to damage via skillshots from a very safe range.

If they mess up and get caught at this range in a flank with no teammates to help them and somehow can't get to help, its their fault for their poor prediction skills.

(Though Lux's CC and Nidalee's Cougar mobility should at least let them reach their team in the fight they were supporting.)


In a way, I'm wanting expanded item choice and an item for some champions I play- though a damage-oriented Wooglets would be a viable option to a wide variety of champions.


I'm wanting expanded item choice in order to boost the potential damage mages can deal at the cost of Wooglet's survivability, helping glass cannon mages to have more of an impact on the map.

Its really about how little some champions need the survivability under certain play-styles.


Out of curiosity, what burst mages do you play and how do you build them?

I play Veigar heavily and use AP Nidalee often on Dominion.

(And even with Cougar attacks, I often stay alive with Nidalee on Dominion so long that I often go back without dying just to shop.)


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Evelynn Butt

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11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
mages who stay safe in Dominion's backlines.
don't exist


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Galgus

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

@ Pterodactly Man:

Because every game the enemy team will storm past Veigar's apparently useless team and dogpile him, even with the stun.

I should probably be using Nidalee as the chief example of "backline mage who doesn't get caught easy", or perhaps Ahri, but you get the point.


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Evelynn Butt

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

i'm going to be polite

i decided to look you up on lolking

out of the five dominion matches, you only ran revive as hecarim, and ignored the spell for 3 nidalee games and one AD malz game

i don't thing you actually understand how dominion works, which is why your statements about the job of backline mages seem suspect


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Galgus

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11-22-2012

If you saw my Nidalee games, you might have seen that I tend to have long lives.

I'm honestly rather rusty with AD Malzahar, but in the past I've brought Exhaust/Ignite on him due to the synergy it has.

(On a side note, Malzahar is not someone I'd describe as a safe back-line mage.)

I'll admit that Revive is awesome on Dominion, but I don't view it as required- and how can metas change if we don't experiment?


I don't know how that site tracks data, but I played much more Dominion in the past- I kind of took a break from it for a SR spree. Most of my Veigar Dominion experience is from before that break.


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Aerolax

Junior Member

11-22-2012

'Because every game the enemy team will storm past Veigar's apparently useless team and dogpile him, even with the stun.'

Exactly!
Kassadin, Khazix, Rengar, Wukong, Talon, Pantheon


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