Zed usability

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GurkenMAN

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Played him some times and only was doing very well (and kinda carrying) in mid and imo only because the enemy was quite nooby swain.
Had hard games against good players and i imagine his laning/overall performance could be greatly improved with some changes:

1.energy costs/restore amount:
Well simply lowering energy cost would make him more forgiving to play (especially earlier levels!!). If the difficulty level should stay the same id suggest heightening the energy restore amount- again especially at earlier levels. Make it a fixed amount at all levels of w so u dont need to max w 2nd some times to adress enery issues.

2. scaling is only on bonus AD:
You NEED to get fed, otherwise you are useless mid/late. Thats what i see as another main problem. Good players will play cautious and you wont be able to burst enough in teamfights because you just dont have enough equip/ Enemy bought 1 Armor item. Also the w bonus only scales on bonus AD. Kinda dislike this, because you get major problem if your enemy is veeerryy defensive (if he knows zed well, they be early).

3.w-reliance:
without w he is just subpar damagewise compared to 90% of champs. Passive is incredibly strong- OK. But the main problem is that w is his offense and defense. YOu can lower the high cd with e- OK, but thats an energy drain and only OK when hitting many minions, which isnt a solution and pushes the lane.
I suggest an addiditional cdr on hitting his q on champs.

tldr: Zed has issues. Great funchamp with nice mechanics but very reliant on items due to ONLY bonus scaling and limited by his energy comsumption and w-reliance. Probably the worst assassin atm.


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Teamius2041

Senior Member

11-22-2012

1. If you have to max W second, you are simply playing wrong. He is an assassin not a mage, you shouldn't be throwing your shurikens every time they are off cooldown. Either throw them to last hit when you feel it is unsafe to get that minion kill or to harass your opponent when you know you can hit. If you throw them every 10 seconds then yes you will have a bad time, that can be said about a lot of champions that use mana as well and mana takes longer to get back without a pot.

2. Pantheon would like to have a word with you about scaling and uselessness. His Ws passive is awesome, it means you don't have to build glass cannon to have a high AD. Also if you play cautiously you shouldn't play assassin, they are for high risk players, meaning you go for the kill. If you wait around for your team to do the work for you, than you are not being an assassin.

3. I don't see a problem with his W, it is a small flash that can poke your enemies like viktor's laser. Granted I could see it happen a little faster so I can teleport faster but I will live with what I got. Again if you are being energy starved, than stop spamming your skills as much.

I go 21/0/9.
Picking up all the AD and armor pen I can. and putting my 9 points in the energy (+10), flash mastery, and speed, the last one in buff duration.

I have Armor/MR pen Marks, Armor Seals, MR glyphs, Flat health Quints. I pick Flash and Ignite as my summoner spells.

I open with boots and 3 health pots, building ionian boots first before builidng brutalizer. Next I build to my Maw for MR with great damage potential in 1-1 fights, than building frozen mallet for health and speed reduction to keep attacking them after I ult. After that I build a Guardian Angel. Then I usually build my Blood thirstier if the game keeps going.

I put my points in Q-E-W than max Q, than E.

I usually play top or support with Zed and it works out quite well with both. At top I play usually far back once I get to level 3 to have max poke range than once I get to level 6 I can finish off an opponent with ease.

At bot as support I let the carry eat the minions while I sit in the bush and harass the enemy champs with my Q since I don't have to focus on last hitting.


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Naxc

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Tried Zed, didn't feel impressed.

I think his skills are too complicated for the potential the character has DPS wise. He also goes out of energy at a record speed in team fights if you try to be tricky. Also not too fond of energy cost that change with levels.

TLDR: Complicated unrewarding starved.


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Teamius2041

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naxc View Post
Tried Zed, didn't feel impressed.

I think his skills are too complicated for the potential the character has DPS wise. He also goes out of energy at a record speed in team fights if you try to be tricky. Also not too fond of energy cost that change with levels.

TLDR: Complicated unrewarding starved.
He is not a DPS he is an assassin. You shouldn't be building AS on him. The energy cost change with level is great since it allows him to use more abilities later the game goes. You shouldn't be using your W to poke your enemies during team fights, but instead wait till someone is out of position or run around the area to get behind the tanks to get a squishy with ease.


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GurkenMAN

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Kinda disagree.

Q everytime its usable leaves you oo-energy very quickly.

I tried max e and q first and i think e is more reliable.
When dont getting fed i max q 2nd or mix q and w. when im i have more golt than the opponent, i get some points in w for more fluid play (shorter cd, more AD, more energy reg).
but ok- its my taste of playing and maxing w last can also make sense in many cases (eg if underfed). Would call it situational.

I play AD-Quints or MS. Arpen Reds. No use for hybrid if you ask me just for passive. Guess my runeset is much better- sorry. See no point in hybridpen on this char.
Mid i also go 21/0/9. Also tried 21/9/0 and its fine too- depends on playstyle.

Ionian isnt that good cause only ur w really benefits from this- you get even more serious energy probs with him when spamming. I get mercs/tabi depending on enemies.

Sorry teamius- but there are many points i disagree with in your opinion. I see no arguments that "prove/show" Zed is viable. I btw think you´ve got some optimization potential in your Zed-Play...


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Teamius2041

Senior Member

11-22-2012

I find the hybrid marks better than straight Armor pen because his passive can do a lot to someone not paying close attention as well as making it easier to last hit minions. I really don't see who has a better runeset because we both have two different prefs.

Ionian boots also lets him use hit ult more and faster. Which is why I get it, I want to make sure that I have my abilities ready when I need them.

I'm also going to assume that you have another account other than this one that you have played Zed with.


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GurkenMAN

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Yip. This was just a funaccount when EUW is down but in forums there, there are even more trolls so im using it for "Foruming" here^^

Well OK- your argument for ionian is right. he relies on ult to get kills, so building it may be fine.

About the hybridrunes i still disagree- i think the difference in damage you give away from a 95% physical kit is too big.

Look statistics after game and think that most magic dmg also hit minions when you farm. I rly dont think hybrid runes are good on him- RLY!

Ill play him some more games but if i actually compare him to other champs i think he´s really underwhelming! On TT he´s a little better i think, because Brut+LvDP stack with ech other so you get nice Arpen and CDr in useful items.

On SR i build:
Boots+3
Brut and/or Boots2 (getting boots 2 as soon as enemy has- maybe brut before if possible)
hex/phage (depends on enemy)
One defensive item from GA (depending on enemy again)
Then try to build towards BT or Maw.

That´s often the path i go, but except brut 1st i always build according to the enemy. Well, but as i said- i dont think im the worst player but against half competent opponents i seem to not have a real chance without jungle help.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Fine points, to be sure. Allow me to play the devil's advocate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GurkenMAN View Post
1.energy costs/restore amount:
Well simply lowering energy cost would make him more forgiving to play (especially earlier levels!!). If the difficulty level should stay the same id suggest heightening the energy restore amount- again especially at earlier levels. Make it a fixed amount at all levels of w so u dont need to max w 2nd some times to adress enery issues.
At level 2, Zed can have W + E to restore his energy TWICE before the W wears off. An added benefit is 2 - 4 seconds knocked off of his cooldown on W. It is a common mistake to take Q and harass with it. It will just starve out your Energy.
Quote:
2. scaling is only on bonus AD:
You NEED to get fed, otherwise you are useless mid/late. Thats what i see as another main problem. Good players will play cautious and you wont be able to burst enough in teamfights because you just dont have enough equip/ Enemy bought 1 Armor item. Also the w bonus only scales on bonus AD. Kinda dislike this, because you get major problem if your enemy is veeerryy defensive (if he knows zed well, they be early).
This is a common trap where under-farmed Zed players will feel frustrated because they can't finish items quick enough. DON'T wait to finish items! (exception:Brutalizer) Just buy whatever tier 1 AD that you can until you hit 80 - 100 bonus. Three Pickaxes may look silly in your inventory, but they will serve you very well!
Quote:
3.w-reliance:
without w he is just subpar damagewise compared to 90% of champs. Passive is incredibly strong- OK. But the main problem is that w is his offense and defense. YOu can lower the high cd with e- OK, but thats an energy drain and only OK when hitting many minions, which isnt a solution and pushes the lane.
I suggest an addiditional cdr on hitting his q on champs.
It is no longer subpar damage if you are buying flat AD, like I said above and you are maxing your W first. Yes MAX W first! The passive AD goes up, the W's Energy cost goes down, the Energy restore goes up (over the cost of the W itself) and the cooldown goes down. The added AD from the passive (you are buying AD, right?) will boost the damage of Q/E because of their scaling.


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Least Pro Lee NA

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
This is a common trap where under-farmed Zed players will feel frustrated because they can't finish items quick enough. DON'T wait to finish items! (exception:Brutalizer) Just buy whatever tier 1 AD that you can until you hit 80 - 100 bonus. Three Pickaxes may look silly in your inventory, but they will serve you very well!
My thoughs exactly. I fined the best way to build AD caster Assasins like Zed or Kha'zix is to go for several mid game items instead of rushing 1 or 2 late game ones. this way i have a nice balance of HP, AD and resists. My mid game build consists of Merc treds, Brutilizer, Hex dringer, a phage. After this I will either build a GA or turn my phage into a frozen mallet. Then i get my Maw and ghostblades.

You also have to consider that Zed was likely built with season 3 items in mined. If you look at the new black cleaver you will fined that it Synergizes very will with zeds ultimate. Zeds combo consist of exactly 5 damaging instances Ult, E, Qx2, Auto attack,and a second E if you have time. After which then enemy will have lost a significant amount of armor do to the black cleaver so when your Ult explodes it will be doing a massive amount of damage.

But i do have one major gripe with zed. The Cooldown on his Ult really isn't warranted and early game the percentage is way to low. It should go 30%, 40%, 50% with the cooldown at 80 sec 65 sec 45 sec. A slight range increase would also be nice.


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

i bought him and tried him out and he seems kinda weak, mid lane wise someone like talon or lee sin would be a much better and reliable pick when your trying to counter pick mages not only is their dps more reliable it's also higher.
The only place zed might shine would be in the jungle due to his insanely fast clear time with his e but even with that his ability to gank is a bit poor due to lack of hard cc and damage.


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