Balancing and Expanding support potential - Introduction of a new stat

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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

11-21-2012

All right guys so we all know that support have become kind of stale over season 2 and that the role isn't exactly concrete. (TL;DR at the bottom) We have ap caries and other champions jumping into the role as well like support zyra, support morgana, etc, etc and while they fill the role quite well at what point do they eventually overtake traditional supports and how to you solve a problem with general non support playing as a great support option, being a damage threat, and hording massive utility without destroying their carry style gameplay as well and how do you make the traditional support much more flexible and capable of sitting in a 0 CS role.

Well first I want to introduce you to some key terms and then talk about my solution so read if you like and let me know what you think. This is something that is a work in progress but input from others helps and this aimed at helping us all.

Quote:
Key Terms:
Utility Power: A stat that increases the power of utility spells but not direct damage.
Utility: Utility is divided into two categories Team Utility and Self Utility.
Team Utility: Team Utility is utility that everyone on your team can take advantage of and falls into the category of CC, Auraís, Buffs, and debuffs that donít effect only one champion. Examples: Taric, Shatter and Dazzle or Nunuís blood boil and ice Blast.
Self Utility: Self Utility is Utility that only the holding champion can use but helps them achieve their goal without doing damage directly in most cases. Examples: Nidalee's Prowl, ezreals Arcane shift, and general self buffs and other blinks/movement speed buffs in general are all self utility. AD Carries and bruisers rely on a lot of self Utility
Quote:
Introduction of a new stat:
Utility Power a stat made to split the support power of champions away from their damage potential and allow for support to still be strong at supporting without hindering their ability to also be a damage threat should they go a damage dealer route. The utility that supports bring is what defines them as a support. Supports bring more utility to the team than your average champion thus they are relegated to being less of a damage threat for balance sake. The idea of Utility Power is to allow supports to choose. ďShould I build support items to support better or damage items to help deal more damage? What do we need more of? The intrinsic value of this stat and items containing it are geared towards being highest with supports but extremely low on non-supports. This will allow us to apply easier methods of balancing champion utility and damage. Supports often receive balance changes when their utility to damage capabilities are out of balance but with a way to truly scale utility back but allow growth from items makes supports a truly strong choice to have on the team.

So let us begin shall we. Utility power is a universal stat for increasing the effectiveness of champion utility. This would require a global change to utility which could have the potential to change the game drastically. It isn't something that should be implemented immediately on all champions but it is something that can be used on all in the future. For most stats Utility power will act as a percent modifier 10 Utility power will increase effectiveness by 10% and 50 Utility power will increase its effectiveness by 50%. It will be mostly in item form but will not be a stat you can get too much more than 100 of due to itemization and runes/masteries amounts. For this to work without making some champions utterly overpowered the itemless effectiveness of their utility would have to be reduced which will cement building utility as being a support choice and building AP or AD as the carry/damage dealer choice. As the Utility is nerfed for Utility Power scaling so must the damage ratios be buffed to support being able to do the damage role as well. Now letís talk about how Utility Power affects Buffs, Debuffs, and CCís.

Flat Buffs will be reduced a small amount and be effected the same way as % buffs where 10 UP equals 10% more effective and 100 equals 100% more effective. Taric armor aura reduced to scale 5/10/15/20/25 from 10/15/20/25/30 would be just as effective at about 35 UP.
Percent Buffs would receive a percent increase but also have the amount they give reduced to compensate for the additional scaling for instance Nunuís attackspeed/movespeed buff. Blood Boil increases attack speed by 25/35/45/55/65%. The total would be reduced to 20/25/30/35/40% but for every 10 Utility Power you have it would be increased by 10% so at 10 Utility Power it would be 22/27.5/33/38.5/44% and 100 Utility Power it would be 40/50/60/70/80%. The duration of Hastes will be unaffected by Utility Power.
Flat/Percent Debuffs would be effected in the same way, just like Hastes, Slows duration will be unaffected by Utility Power.

CCís or crowd control will benefit from Utility Power as well but with limitations. Hard CC (Snares, Stuns, Fears, Taunts, and Charms) can only be increased to a cap of 50%. It will be made unattractive as much as possible to hard CC carrying damage dealers but probably be in small amounts on some damage items. Persistent slows (Frost shot) will receive reduced effects as well but regular slows (Ice Blast) will receive the same scaling as hastes. Slows can only be increased by up to cap of 25%. Hard CC ratio would be 100 Utility Power for 50% duration increase. Persistent slows would be 100 Utility Power for 25% increase in the slows.

My reasoning behind this is I find slows to be the most prevalent and one of the strongest CCís in the game. Movement and attackspeed slows are some of the most debilitating slows in the game. Melees and ranged Carries suffer the effects of slows the most but slows makes it easy for melee to cut down range opponents easier as well. Hard CC is great for catching a single target with multiple allies but ineffective if it is a mobile champion that can quickly flee after the duration wears off. Slows on the other hand hold everyone in place and make short work of an agile champions mobility.

I got some great ideas from Cupcake Trap in his thread where he talks about the 0 CS support meta and how supports in general are a gold starved role. Another issue i noticed my self is that support rely on assists early on for gold and gp 5 items. generally in bot lane the side that gets fb and or gets ahead of the other side punishes the support much more than the AD carry. An AD carry may miss out on some last hits in a losing lane but a support in a losing lane falls behind trying to keep up with ward management, getting gp5 items and not taking CS. The basic way i seen this and these numbers are completely made up for my example. Lets say our winning AD carry is sitting on a total of 6000 earned gold and his support is sitting on a total of 4000 gold. Now the losing AD carry is sitting on 5000 gold but the losing support is sitting on 2500 gold. This could probably be explained better but basically support get the worst part of a bad day when your losing lane.

These are a some ideas I had but don't take any of them seriously. Some may be good some may be bad and they are hear just for fresh ideas hopefully.

Several things to note:

Support synergy is an idea from cupcake trap that allows nearby allies to gain a small portion of gold equal to a percent of allied income from CS. It is balanced no matter how many allies are nearby due to minions waves always consisting of 6 to 9 minions. Even in 4 allies are killing minions you still only get the same amount of gold you would get if one ally killed all the minions. Lastly you do not get the bonus if you are killing the minions so it can't be stacked to increase the effectiveness of your own income from CS unless you are sharing CS which ultimately still divides the gold pretty evenly.


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LordForrest

Member

11-21-2012

Didn't read all of it, but i liked the idea of what i read about the Utility Power allowing them to boost their utility spells with out make there damage spells op when build ap on some champs


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordForrest View Post
Didn't read all of it, but i liked the idea of what i read about the Utility Power allowing them to boost their utility spells with out make there damage spells op when build ap on some champs
The main idea is to basically scale back utility of their spells in exchange for stat scaling on their utility from this new stat. Additionally damage scaling from damage stats would go back up but you would have trade offs for going either route.

If you want more damage build AP or AD but your utility is weaker than before if you do this. If you want to support your team better then build Utility Power to make your team support skills better but your damage is very low.

Edit:

I figured I should give more clarification as to why an additional stat is required instead of using something like AP since I don't think everyone will understand. The idea is to give support and support hybrids 2 clear paths

1. - More Damage but less utility. Your team needs more damage because it has balanced utility so you may go this path.

2. - Much stronger Utility but less damage. Your team has plenty of damage but lacks good teamwide utility so stronger utility will be needed to fill the void.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Ward management should be less annoying with the Sightstones. Free wards every trip back to fountain, two out at a time, three out when you upgrade.

It'll probably be the first buy of any Support now that Philostone got shafted.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea De Penserhir View Post
Ward management should be less annoying with the Sightstones. Free wards every trip back to fountain, two out at a time, three out when you upgrade.

It'll probably be the first buy of any Support now that Philostone got shafted.

Yeah I like some of the new items they have come out with but even still they will run into allot of the same problems.

I'm trying to come up with an idea to solve most of the problems and add some flexibility to support class characters.

Preseason is the best time to do crazy things to the game and I am trying to present one of those crazy ideas. Getting ignored at almost every attempt.


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lastcenturion

Senior Member

11-21-2012

also (just a desing choice) STOP MAKING ALL THE SUPPORTS WOMAN.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

11-21-2012

saw the words utility power and stopped... mostly cuz its late. sounds scary though. balancing nightmare

even without the stat, actual utility is really hard to balance it seems


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
saw the words utility power and stopped... mostly cuz its late. sounds scary though. balancing nightmare

even without the stat, actual utility is really hard to balance it seems

Its not late. This is the perfect time to try out new things. We are currently in the off season.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

I like the idea, although when I read the initial description you gave for personal/self utility, you mentioned Tristana's Rapid Fire which is an AS steroid. Might want to think of a different example.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
I like the idea, although when I read the initial description you gave for personal/self utility, you mentioned Tristana's Rapid Fire which is an AS steroid. Might want to think of a different example.
Yeah fixed it.


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