Another Riven thread.. with some things to think about

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topsykrett

Junior Member

12-24-2012

I'm kind of perplexed by the drastic changes. I thought about things though and they could make sense.. implying other changes be applied. Anyhow, here's my take from maybe a somewhat different light:

I have played Riven since just before her major hp5 nerf a while back last year. The nerf was necessary and she has still been viable with some tweaks to playstyle. Right now with the new items, things are just kind of crazy for many champs. In my opinon, what it boils down to for Riven is that she is an all-around different playstyle when compared to that of the other most common top lane bruisers. She is not really tanky-dps in lane at all and if you play her as such, you're going to get destroyed. What makes her viable is the quick harass and mobility. Valor in, slap, stun, slap, hop out, blah, blah, until you can finish off the opponent with an ult (if level 6) or a combination of skills and summoner spells. It is all about setting up to catch your opponent making a mistake and that takes some finesse over just raw tanky power.

Also, playing top with Riven, in my experience, is usually feast or famine. Yes Riven has awesome snowball potential, but this is what should really set her apart for her playstyle - not being so much a tanky-dps type. If the idea is to force a "balls to the wall" playstyle by taking away more hp5, we need some other sort of sustain. Yes, lifesteal is a big part of Riven.. but it's a problem when I'm too low on health after exchanging blows to get in and hit minions consistently. Sure I can use skills to get gold from minions.. but I still am not getting the life back that I need to stay in lane. You see, the changes can be justifiable if you are trying to more clearly define Riven's playstyle. But what she needs now then is BALANCE. There are some champs that it is just impossible to counter harass due to their innate tanky-ness, stat synergy with key items, or high ranged damage potential (ie- singed, jayce). Maybe some extra damage to broken wings to encourage harass, a hp5 bonus added to valor when damage is taken could work, or a small buff to the stun time of ki burst to assist getting away, lower cd on valor.. just SOMETHING to make sure I can play a high risk/high reward, high mobility style without going back to the fountain after every little skirmish. This is affected too by ult time increase. If I can't finish an opponent as soon as I'd like, this gives them time to take advantage of their various sustain methods (a heal, inbuilt lifesteal, higher hp5, etc). How am I suppose to go through a phase of harassing again with even less health this time around? It's not possible.

The ult was needed to make sure there wasn't just endless harassment with no finish. With higher ult time and no sustain, I am now forced to play more passively for a longer period of time between cd before I can try to work on harass again. This will essentially lead to me being pushed around profusely and giving up tower damage. Staying in lane is now going to be impossible with no other form of sustain. Overall, you see, without making some other modifications, these changes make Riven very inconsistent. I will close by saying that late game Riven is almost 100% dependent on the lane phase. If I get shutdown in lane, it is no easy task trying to come back and do my job late game.


tl;dr - Early game balance in playstyle is the big deal here.

Also I apologize for grammar/spelling or nonsensical comments. It's pretty late here.


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My Desired Name

Senior Member

12-24-2012

No way I'm reading that whole wall of text..


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The5lacker

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Desired Name View Post
No way I'm reading that whole wall of text..
Joke's on you, it's pretty well thought out and has a very valid point. Them cutting Riven's regen in half really doesn't make much sense with her playstyle, which has always been hit and run. There are some champs this hasn't worked well on, some it has, but overall Riven has needed that regen to stay in the lane after skirmishes given how close she needs to get to deal damage and how low her base health is.


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Adrian Umbra

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

I have to agree with you. The Riven nerfs by Riot seem extremely hasty and not very well thought out and aimed toward a champ that really doesn't need that level of nerf. The health regen was to help her out against some of the many tops with middling to high natural sustain, and by gimping that so much (LOSING 5 HP PER SECOND), they're just killing the champion.


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FreeGothitelle

Senior Member

12-24-2012

The complaints about her hp regen/5 nerfs are hilarious.
There's this item, it costs 180 gold (AKA hardly anything), and gives you 5 hp/5 regen (the same amount as riven's nerf)
If it was really that big of a deal everyone would be buying that for the extra sustain with almost every champ, and if the nerf really bothers you that much just start with ward + bead + pots or something, giving you your precious hp regen and great sustain through pots.
Or you could start with a doran's shield which is amazing vs many ad tops, and gives you your hp regen back.

So much fuss over this >.>


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KitStylus

Senior Member

12-24-2012

OMG you ever heard of Paragraphs? :O

Anyway welcome to the league of Nerfs =/


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Adrian Umbra

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeGothitelle View Post
The complaints about her hp regen/5 nerfs are hilarious.
There's this item, it costs 180 gold (AKA hardly anything), and gives you 5 hp/5 regen (the same amount as riven's nerf)
If it was really that big of a deal everyone would be buying that for the extra sustain with almost every champ, and if the nerf really bothers you that much just start with ward + bead + pots or something, giving you your precious hp regen and great sustain through pots.
Or you could start with a doran's shield which is amazing vs many ad tops, and gives you your hp regen back.

So much fuss over this >.>
Counterargument: Why should 5 hp/5 matter enough that Riot should nerf it then? Answer: It does matter. You either set Riven back 180 gold for an item she'll likely just sell later or set her back even further with a Doran's Shield, which while nice, delays her build a fair amount. Riven needs that gold value to snowball. Taking half her health regen away when she isn't really considered a problem by the player community won't help with that.


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Phoenix0Wright

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Umbra View Post
Counterargument: Why should 5 hp/5 matter enough that Riot should nerf it then? Answer: It does matter. You either set Riven back 180 gold for an item she'll likely just sell later or set her back even further with a Doran's Shield, which while nice, delays her build a fair amount. Riven needs that gold value to snowball. Taking half her health regen away when she isn't really considered a problem by the player community won't help with that.
Setting someone back 180 gold is nothing. That's barely 9 CS. If the regen is so important to Riven players, that's not a large price to pay, and if it helps them snag a kill in lane or force the opponent back, it more than pays for itself in CS the enemy misses.


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Tomukai

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Riven still counters every other champ top with no counters.


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topsykrett

Junior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeGothitelle View Post
The complaints about her hp regen/5 nerfs are hilarious.
There's this item, it costs 180 gold (AKA hardly anything), and gives you 5 hp/5 regen (the same amount as riven's nerf)
If it was really that big of a deal everyone would be buying that for the extra sustain with almost every champ, and if the nerf really bothers you that much just start with ward + bead + pots or something, giving you your precious hp regen and great sustain through pots.
Or you could start with a doran's shield which is amazing vs many ad tops, and gives you your hp regen back.

So much fuss over this >.>

My argument to that is:

Why should I be forced into consistently buying a specific item? Wasn't this patch all about increasing variety in items and builds? If I get gimped in hp5 and ALWAYS have to buy the same items to be viable, that seems to defeat the purpose. Also, if I can buy that item, so can every other bruiser.. which will still make their sustain greater than mine. If I always have to start buying certain items just for survival, I can't really take advantage of of other early game strategies. Suggesting items should not be a solution.


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