You won't be banned for having bad games

First Riot Post
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DesuDeuche

Junior Member

11-21-2012

I remember being around when Riot talked about introducing the Tribunal System to the game and how promising the idea sounded. Too bad Riot could not see into the near future and developed and released this system without any real analysis of how this would effect a game of this nature

DotA-Style games have always been frustrating to play when you're not performing as well as expected because you rely on other players for your success as a team. Unlike Starcraft where you're the sole responsibility and liability to the success of the match, League requires your entire team of 4 strangers to be able to work co-operatively. So when you introduce a system which grants you the power to accuse your fellow team mates of violating rules as vague as "Verbal Harassment" and "Intentional Feeding".
Abuse of the report system existed before Tribunal, introducing it escalated the issue exponentially. Issue now is not that people are being reported for these things but actually being BANNED for something so vague. This is a case where the team was upset, and had the right to be, and mass flagged the player who happens to be having either a bad day or a bad game under the premiss of Intentional Feeding. This is now sent to Tribunal and with minimal information given and minimal effort given by the participants, glance quickly at the report figures, skim the chat log quickly and look at the kills and deaths. Looks like there's a lot of reports and 2/15 KDR means I hit the Punish button because I just want my bribe given by Riot for filling out this assembly line ban counter.

Tribunal's #1 flaw is giving the power to remove someone else s rights who is biased as all ****. If I had to go to court over a racial dispute over african-american individuals and the jury is entirely Middle aged Male Ghetto African Americans, I would demand a re-trial.


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DesuDeuche

Junior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This isn't a mistake. This punishment is deserved.
This is an example of a case that the Tribunal is not extremely effective at resolving because the player is extremely negative in more subtle ways such as in pre- and post-game chat.
Tribunal should be focused about what happens INSIDE a match. There are some cases where at the beginning of a match that people will intentionally select a champion that isn't either suitable for the match-up or they let the timer expire and a random champion is selected. Even then, unless these are ranked games, punishments this severe are uncalled for with "subtle" remarks made at the end or beginning of a game.


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Ada Wong

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This isn't a mistake. This punishment is deserved.

This player has received over 1000 reports in 900ish games. That's a staggering number that almost no players ever reach. Consider that the average player receives about 4-5 reports every 100 games and you can see how absurd the difference is. This is an example of a case that the Tribunal is not extremely effective at resolving because the player is extremely negative in more subtle ways such as in pre- and post-game chat. However, after review of the chat logs I'm going to leave the ban as is. It's my belief that this player understands quite well what kind of behaviors he should work on to avoid this happening again.
This is why the Tribunal needs fixing.

1. Add PreGame Chat.
2. Add Recorded gameplay.

Because its impossible to tell exactly what goes on in all these games, sure the GM's know because they have admin login's to the game maybe a special client, but we don't.

This way for those who actually judge and want to be good in the tribunal, make fair and sound decisions can properly judge and punish not only based on the chat, but based on the actual game itself, for example if one player is being very negative, cussing his mates, but another player is taunting them from the start we have the ability to kill two birds with one stone and give both of them a warning or something not only the person reported.

Otherwise while its riots choice based on the logs we were provided with which based on Customer Service said it was a wrongful ban. Customer Service from Riot said that they provide all the stats to the tribunal which obviously isn't true.

I wouldn't be shocked how many games I possibly get reported in because of Trolls, afkers, and spammers raging. Some days are just horriable getting matched constantly with trolls sometimes the same person in the same day ping spamming without a reason.


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DesuDeuche

Junior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayden Demonia View Post
This is why the Tribunal needs fixing.

1. Add PreGame Chat.
2. Add Recorded gameplay.

Because its impossible to tell exactly what goes on in all these games, sure the GM's know because they have admin login's to the game maybe a special client, but we don't.

This way for those who actually judge and want to be good in the tribunal, make fair and sound decisions can properly judge and punish not only based on the chat, but based on the actual game itself, for example if one player is being very negative, cussing his mates, but another player is taunting them from the start we have the ability to kill two birds with one stone and give both of them a warning or something not only the person reported.

Otherwise while its riots choice based on the logs we were provided with which based on Customer Service said it was a wrongful ban. Customer Service from Riot said that they provide all the stats to the tribunal which obviously isn't true.

I wouldn't be shocked how many games I possibly get reported in because of Trolls, afkers, and spammers raging. Some days are just horriable getting matched constantly with trolls sometimes the same person in the same day ping spamming without a reason.
That would imply a majority of Tribunal users were actually interested in resolving the issues at hand. Giving the players the ability to watch a replay will not aid in the success of forgiving accounts falsely accused. Players will still use the chatlogs to base their verdicts on. Which most of the time, are very Subtle

Also Riot would have to go through the effort of taking snippits of every death of the player to add to Tribunal, which requires time and effort that Riot does not have. (or rather not willing to do)


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Tenmar

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This isn't a mistake. This punishment is deserved.

This player has received over 1000 reports in 900ish games. That's a staggering number that almost no players ever reach. Consider that the average player receives about 4-5 reports every 100 games and you can see how absurd the difference is. This is an example of a case that the Tribunal is not extremely effective at resolving because the player is extremely negative in more subtle ways such as in pre- and post-game chat. However, after review of the chat logs I'm going to leave the ban as is. It's my belief that this player understands quite well what kind of behaviors he should work on to avoid this happening again.
Lyte, do you honestly think that all the people you ban are actually and honest to god terrible people that should have nothing to do with society?

Would you have no problem going up to every person's face and their family and telling them that their son/daughter or father/mother are terrible people? Or how about their friends?


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Ada Wong

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesuDeuche View Post
Tribunal should be focused about what happens INSIDE a match. There are some cases where at the beginning of a match that people will intentionally select a champion that isn't either suitable for the match-up or they let the timer expire and a random champion is selected. Even then, unless these are ranked games, punishments this severe are uncalled for with "subtle" remarks made at the end or beginning of a game.
I Agree but there currently is no rules on picking and playing champs. If someone doesn't agree with my decisions they can leave.

In addition a lot of behavoral problems would be solved if riot wouldn't make it so that you get 25 minute leave penalty for leaving a game you know is going to fail. I can understand all the trolls dodging but I would rather leave pregame rather than waste 50 minutes of my life with a team of trolls.

I generally have my own rules preset of how I play, and what champs I will play and am used to playing. I generally do not play champs like Alaki, or Tanks.


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DesuDeuche

Junior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayden Demonia View Post
I Agree but there currently is no rules on picking and playing champs. If someone doesn't agree with my decisions they can leave.

In addition a lot of behavoral problems would be solved if riot wouldn't make it so that you get 25 minute leave penalty for leaving a game you know is going to fail. I can understand all the trolls dodging but I would rather leave pregame rather than waste 50 minutes of my life with a team of trolls.

I generally have my own rules preset of how I play, and what champs I will play and am used to playing. I generally do not play champs like Alaki, or Tanks.
Great point to make. Issue is with the ability to drop a game with no direct penalty still leaves the option for players to report you for abandoning the game early focusing the attention to you instead of the perp. This would lead to even more unnecessary account suspensions.

edit: People have the right to be upset sometimes. Issue is that the nature of DotAs is that the anger is directed at a living, breathing human being for being an error in the team. Proper habit is to report a player that attacks you verbally, but what most people don't care to see is the reason behind that. Its not a hate crime against your person, its just the fact that the game went poorly for them somehow related to you. Players get better in time when understanding the dynamics of the game but you will have a bad match every now and again, but that's not your fault nor is it anyone elses.


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RyoKuji

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesuDeuche View Post
Great point to make. Issue is with the ability to drop a game with no direct penalty still leaves the option for players to report you for abandoning the game early focusing the attention to you instead of the perp. This would lead to even more unnecessary account suspensions.

edit: People have the right to be upset sometimes. Issue is that the nature of DotAs is that the anger is directed at a living, breathing human being for being an error in the team. Proper habit is to report a player that attacks you verbally, but what most people don't care to see is the reason behind that. Its not a hate crime against your person, its just the fact that the game went poorly for them somehow related to you. Players get better in time when understanding the dynamics of the game but you will have a bad match every now and again, but that's not your fault nor is it anyone elses.
We as people have the choice of how to react to things. If a player ruins the experience of others in an insane percentage of games (Seriously 900 reports in about 1000 games is crazy) then maybe this game isn't for them.

One person's right to get angry should not override the other 9 players right to have have an enjoyable experience that is free from abuse. Bad games happen, but when you're an issue in almost every single game you play, then that isn't a bad game. That is an ongoing pattern of abuse.


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Naphconzz

Junior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This isn't a mistake. This punishment is deserved.

This player has received over 1000 reports in 900ish games. That's a staggering number that almost no players ever reach. Consider that the average player receives about 4-5 reports every 100 games and you can see how absurd the difference is. This is an example of a case that the Tribunal is not extremely effective at resolving because the player is extremely negative in more subtle ways such as in pre- and post-game chat. However, after review of the chat logs I'm going to leave the ban as is. It's my belief that this player understands quite well what kind of behaviors he should work on to avoid this happening again.

4-5 Reports every 100 games? Are these players playing RANKED? LOL if i lose, everyone on the losing team is reporting someone. With how the ELO system is, you usually don't go on long winning streaks so I'm normally being reported every few games


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Tenmar

Senior Member

11-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarksmom View Post
4-5 Reports every 100 games? Are these players playing RANKED? LOL if i lose, everyone on the losing team is reporting someone. With how the ELO system is, you usually don't go on long winning streaks so I'm normally being reported every few games
You have to consider the time element Yarksmom and how long it takes the majority of players who play this game casually or bots only to get those 100 games.

Some people can do 100 games in a time span of two weeks. Some, it takes an entire year just to get 100 matches. So there are a lot of factors that people don't realize.

Honestly I would agree for those that make LOL the main choice to use their time that you will get A LOT of reports very rapidly which is actually harmful if you actually play this game a lot. Because the people that are being reported now aren't really the people who like to make death threats or are actually racists but instead people who just like playing this game a lot.