What's being done about Teemo and Darius?

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Axil

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

Nothing because they are fine


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BlazzedTroll

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naxc View Post
He's not that op, beaten him many times, if he fails to get fed he will feed you all game long.
This is completely false. I play AP teemo. I agree he isn't that OP. Building full AP makes him really squishy and if he is focus'd or CC'd he will die extremely fast. However, I have went 0/5 in the beginning because my team refused to cooperate and pull off ganks or follow pings. They would start a fight and leave me. But after I built some items (got gold via CS and a Pick). I ended the game 10/6. My team pushed all 3 turrets in one lane in one push. Had a tank that tanked the first turret. Minions caught up. We pushed last 2. Team score was like 18/26. Well timed pushes and altar caps is key now. Actually having skill is like a distant 5th. Farming being third. Grabbing the OP items 4th. (BFT, BRK, VanDam)


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WillWW

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Only thing that sucks about darius is that you have to play smarter and more cautiously, whereas, he doesn't.


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orc72

Senior Member

11-19-2012

I agree. Having to play ranked and ban teemo/darius every single game gets old.


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exe3

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazzedTroll View Post
This is completely false. I play AP teemo. I agree he isn't that OP. Building full AP makes him really squishy and if he is focus'd or CC'd he will die extremely fast. However, I have went 0/5 in the beginning because my team refused to cooperate and pull off ganks or follow pings. They would start a fight and leave me. But after I built some items (got gold via CS and a Pick). I ended the game 10/6. My team pushed all 3 turrets in one lane in one push. Had a tank that tanked the first turret. Minions caught up. We pushed last 2. Team score was like 18/26. Well timed pushes and altar caps is key now. Actually having skill is like a distant 5th. Farming being third. Grabbing the OP items 4th. (BFT, BRK, VanDam)
The issue with Teemo isn't so much that he's OP and unkillable (plenty of other games without Darius i've won against Teemo) it's that he creates an insane level of frustration and removes gameplay.

We can't gank because there's shrooms everywhere, we can't escape because there's shrooms everywhere, heck, we can't move because there's shrooms everywhere, you'll hit them while walking safely from X to Y. It's the same reason why wards were removed, too easy to cover the whole map but obviously it's a lot easier to remove an item than to change a character.

Simply put they remove interaction to an extreme as the opposing team can no longer traverse the jungle which is a requirement for maneuverability and to make plays. If an enemy player has overextended we can't capitalize on their mistake because the chance of hitting a shroom and ruining everything is near 100%. Again not a problem in SR because the map is big enough that Shrooms won't be so densely populated and if they are it'd only be in one small section of the map. Simply put in SR some places will be shroomed and some places won't be, in TT everywhere is shroomed at all times.

With Oracles I don't feel it's a sufficient counter as it doesn't change the fact that they're still frustrating as nobody wants to go around ward clearing so that you can actually move around, not to mention clearing the shroom still slows you down and reveals where you are anyway. The only difference between using Oracles and not is the damage (often times not even this if it's a brush shroom) and the additional cost that 9 times out of 10 isn't worth it given the higher death rate in TT.

Also just personally I dislike the notion of a be all end all hard counter to someone. I prefer when there's multiple options for countering someone that at the same time isn't an outright requirement (nor does it completely shut down the enemy being countered), just something you'd want to logically do to give yourself an edge. A black and white hard counter to something that's inherently broken anyway isn't good and isn't an argument for something being balanced, it's why Stealth was remade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rompedor View Post
And there are counter builds to any champ. If Darius is building health, blackfire and deathfire will melt him before he can get close to you. If teemo is building AP he is mostly doing AP damage so MR and oracles elixir and laugh at the shrooms.
I haven't seen Darius build pure health, i've seen him build tanky AD so he'll have the MR to resist those items (one of which is being nerfed anyway), Hexdrinker anybody? And what if you're playing someone who can't use either of those items? What then?

The issue also here is that you can't stop his damage while he builds tanky to stop yours. He has a true damage nuke so you could try building health but the amount of health you'd need is ridiculous and it WILL harm your own damage. He also has passive armor pen so building armor is woefully inefficient (I believe there was a reason given but why does his ult need to be true damage when he gets so much free armor pen anyway?) and honestly I feel people underestimate his magic damage dot that has killed us so many times. He has a bit of an Irelia syndrome going on with all that split damage so it's no surprise he's such a problem. Your only real option seems to be to kill him before he kills you which won't happen unless the player is REALLY bad and is constantly by himself or whatnot and even then he'll probably still take out at least one of you.

MR against Teemo only laughs off the damage (to an extent, we're not talking about just one shroom remember) and i've already posted my feelings on Oracles.


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Rumination

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by exe3 View Post
@ RiotNome or any other Rioter who can answer. What is being done about Teemo and Darius? Twice today i've versed teams with both of them and both times we were horribly defeated. Being defeated however wasn't the issue, it was the fact that we'd OUTPLAY them and get defeated. Before level 6 we would destroy them but as soon as they got their ulti's it was GG. Jungle was suddenly removed to us as a gameplay option as the sheer density of mushrooms (something that was balanced with a far larger map in mind) made avoiding them a literal impossibility. And Darius? Well he's just Darius, just a couple of hits and he 1K+ true damage you to death for easy triple kills. It's not fun and not fair.

Darius is suppose to be getting a remake that takes the power from his ult and gives it to the rest of the kit but when is this going to come out? Certainly not before the Season 3 items are done with as all resources have been out to that for now but hopefully something was already being done about him.

Teemo I honestly can't see how he can work in this map without either rebalancing that would affect SR or map specific rebalances. I just don't know how you could balance him on this map as while everyone loves to hate how annoying he is in SR he actually removes gameplay in TT and that's not fun.

Honestly this is downvote time (if not so already) but it is of my opinion that both Teemo and Darius need to be emergency disabled from Twisted Treeline until they can be looked at and rebalanced. And to some who may say this, yes there are a number of champions that are frustrating to verse but these are the only two champs where I felt disgusted at playing the game and where I honestly felt there was no possibility of winning. I don't make QQ threads because I got beat by character X (there'd be well over 800 threads if that were the case), I make threads when I am uncounterably destroyed in a match that has me questioning why I play this game and as such I want to bring this issue to light.
I used to get angry at these posts on account of the fact that neither Teemo nor Darius are OP on TT. But then I realized, with all the hate being directed towards them, it means that my 3 main champs who actually ARE somewhat OP right now stay under the radar. Er, I mean, YEAH! DOWN WITH TEEMO! DOWN WITH DARIUS! NERF NAO!!!


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Anthrakx

Junior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IplayforfunFU View Post
People complaining about Teemo in TT should uninstall.

No matter how hard you are zoned 250g is nothing in TT and that solves the non brush mushroom issue, for the brush mushrooms there are tons of champs with abilities that reveal areas, enough time to clear the mushroom.

It wont solve the issue but will turn teemo from strong to underpowered, i just won a game with a superfed teemo, simply by buying oracles and going into mushroom clearing jungle runs, most teemos out there have huge gaping holes in their games when people clear their mushrooms, they have no gank awareness.
akali was fun to play in 3s but the cheap cheap oracles made her bs to play now in TT. i didn't mind the wards cuz i still had a sec or 2 before they slapped one down. oracles = instant vision :S


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Les Nomerables

Game Designer

11-20-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

I believe Teemo is getting some power changes that will address issues across all maps. I haven't heard anything about Darius.


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ArcticSirius

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I believe Teemo is getting some power changes that will address issues across all maps. I haven't heard anything about Darius.
For Darius, do something about his Ult, its too insane.. deals x2 true dmg when 5 stacks of his passive are placed on a target and refreshes cd when he scores a killing blow w/ it? too many times ive been kill stolen just from a greedy darius..


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ForgivEnemy

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Darius is awesome because of his ult, they said ap teemo is to strong right now and will be getting changes. Just FYI, you state your examples from only two games with the champions. Not convincing argument at all


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